to have created a scene in Chez Gerard

[margoandjerry]

Chez Gerard have just opened up on the high st in our small suburban town - it used to be a Cafe Uno which was always very family friendly.

I just went in there (3pm) with my mum and with the baby in pram - the place is huge and was 3/4 empty. The manager came and told us the pram would have to be folded or we would have to leave but a) it doesn't fold much as it's a bugaboo and b) the baby was asleep and would have slept all through lunch and c) it was not in the way at all so why?

He said it would get in the way of wheelchairs (of course there was no one in there in a wheelchair) but there was stacks of room anyway - you could have got a Red Arrows style squadron of wheelchairs through there. They had finished with lunch and there were only about 5 tables in use in the whole place. I said that we used to go there all the time when it was Cafe Uno which is owned by the same group and I even showed him where we used to sit, right at the back away from everyone and not causing the remotest obstruction.

He kept offering a high chair but the baby is too small for that and anyway, was fast asleep. I was furious and ranted away at him and all he could say was "it's company policy".

I wouldn't mind if this was in the City and full of adults at lunchtime or in the evening and full of people wanting a quiet meal together but it was in the middle of the afternoon, quiet as death and the baby was fast asleep.

I think this whole "you'll have to fold the buggy" thing is code for "no babies". Got the same attitude in Baker and Spice last week as well which made me even madder given Baker and Spice's target market which I assume to be posh mums.

I shouldn't really be bothered as we went down the road to a really nice local restaurant (not a chain) instead. Had a lovely meal and were made to feel very welcome. Also just remembered that I saw a mouse once in the Chez Gerard in Covent Garden. Pah. They are incompetent fools.

sounds awful, am v glad chez gerard hasn't made it this far north! Pizza Express on the other hand have always been great when we've been with the DTs, even in Harrogate where we could barely get through the door for all the buggies parked

at tutter! No idea why I'm being so mysterious about it. It's not as if I'm a celebrity and you might all come and stare at me shouting at poxy restaurant managers!

Pizza Express are always excellent with children, I agree.

good on you for kicking up s stink, bloody jobsworth. My DP runs restaurants for a living and is always so accomodating its untrue. I'd write a letter to head office and get some free vouchers!

Swifterealla isn't that the point ?
I often read that restaurants die with appalling frequency, yet your DH survives (and I hope prospers) in this very hostile environment.

In nearly all restaurants repeat custom is critical, and service is something you can make much worse or much better.

I eat at Pizza Express with my kids even though I don't personally like their pizzas much. Even in the PE that's actually attached to a bank in the City they are like something out of a child-friendly training video of how it should be done. The one in Covent Garden coped with extreme professionalism with DS throwing up.

As some might have noticed from other threads, I'm a bit of a grouch when it comes to poor service, but PE are brilliant.

Hate hate hate this kind of rigid mean attitude. I think you were right to complain, definitely. I still vividly remember being forbidden from getting on an empty bus (one of the ones that is spacious enough for wheelchairs and buggies) unless I took two sleeping 3 month old babies out of their buggy and folded it up. I can't remember why but it was the last straw and I burst into tears.

I agree about the whole service and repeat custom thing. Whilst I've never been able to fault PE we have a lovely Italian next door to our PE, run by Italians who do it all brilliantly. they genuinely love kids and fall over themselves to be helpful - and I bet they've never had a minute's "training". And the food is fantastic. dds love it and constantly hassle us to go there.

Scummymummy, am shocked by your experience. I really don't understand the whole "buggies may have to be folded" thing on the bus. Why are babies not allowed to be safe and comfortable just because the bus is busy? Shouldn't babies and very young children in fact be safer and more comfortable than everyone else? Possibly excepting the very elderly and infim?

Anyway, DominiConnor - you are a superstar. I called the number you posted and spoke to Marianne who sounded horrified at what had happened. She said it really was not at all company policy and she is going to look into it and knock some heads together and get back to me. I will let you know when I hear from her...

I told her about this thread too - when I have her email address I will send her a link. Ha - MNpower!

my friend has twins
she went to get on a (empty) bus. The bus driver told her she had to fold the buggy. She said "how do i take out two sleeping babies? where do i put them? on the floor? so i can fold up the buggy. then how do i hold them on the bus.

anyway, he didn't let her on the bus

she went to the local bus garage with her husband. complained. no joy "it's policy".
then went to the local paper.
still no progress.

better get back in our 4 x 4s then.

When this started I thought it was a swanky place, then discovered it's a chain. It sounds the kind of place I'd take my 3 kids on a trip to London. Now it is in my head as not a small child friendly place (I have big grumpy ones). By upsetting a customer you risk losing a lot of potential custom. (I boycott a local coffee chain because it has a no buggy policy). Buses where I live in Ireland have priority spaces - if a wheelchair needs a space, the buggy has to be folded. But most buses aren't wheelchair accessible which solves that most of the time.

amidaiwish I have twins and came across a similar thing at the doctor's on baby clinic day - 'you can't bring that buggy in here you knwo its not allowed' oh right, which one would you like me to leave outside then?[anger] they let me in the end

Why do we tolerate this type of child apartheid in this country. It's as if children or babies or families are second class citizens.

I will boycott Chez Gerard and All Bar One (whose under 21 policy I detest). Do they not realise that mothers (and fathers) can also be purchasers of corporate hospitality potential customers when without their children etc.

I used to be turned off buses that sucks too. or asked to fold buggies when I had baby, shopping and toddler in tow.

Also when travelling on public transport at the rush hour met with looks - I sometimes used to say yes I am going to work too!!

It really doesn't seem to be so evident in Europe, all appear to coexist happily.

Sorry forgot to add that at my old GPs the baby clinic was up two flights of stairs and you had to leave buggies outside locked with padlock.

I think it's sad I really do and reflects the perceived low status of mothers. It's about time that more pressure was put on these people to think about how to make things easier.

on a positive note can i say that yesterday i took my 2 DDs to Red Peppers in Ted**ton on my own [brave emoticon]....
the staff were fantastic
DD2 wouldn't stay in her highchair, they weren't bothered. gave them crayons and colouring sheets the minute we walked in, and a balloon, their food arrived in less than 10 minutes.

I'm not someone who sees sexism everywhere, but..
I'm often have the kids out and about. No shop, restaurant, bus, or anything has ever once given me grief. Until this thread, I hadn't considered this unusual.
But if some jobsworth did cause hassle, then they really would find their life getting hard.
Not through violence, just a very loud bloody mindedness.
Most people understand that a tired mother who gets screwed around will usually just shrug her shoulders and move on.
A large tired bloke is quite likely to go right the other way. And though of course I wouldn't deck a jobsworth they have to take that risk into account.

I'm glad margotandjerry used the number I gave her, and I think this is the way forward. It took me a little while to get the number of the right person in Chez Gerard, and I can't claim that I'd think of it in real time duringargument in a restaurant.
But I would have simply stood there, with kids obdurately refusing to move whilst I did think up how to escalate.
Mobile phones are a great aid to the militant parent. Most have cameras which record voice as well. Great for corporate embarrassment , and proodf later when the jobsworth denies it all.

dc I think you may have a point. How many men have ever been asked to fold a buggy on a bus?

btw, you have gone to so much effort on this - thank you so much!

I have to say I have NEVER seen a man getting on a bus with a buggy

Lets have a Mumnset meet up there , en mass with buggies & prams !

this thing really annoys me . Hope you do complan Margo .

Is there one in bath or bristol yet?

Just read your last post Margo - good for you and I hope heads are knocked together and left in a heap on the floor !

Poweder28, I've taken DCs in a buggy on a bus, and no one has raised an eyebrow, indeed some women have seen me struggle and offered help.

In American political idiom "buses" have all sorts of emotional resonances, as in black people being put at the back or denied access.

It took some top grade bloody mindedness to deal with this. Mothers with babies aren't of course in anything like the same depth of harassment, but conversely the battle is easier to win.

Chez Gerard have realised at some level the error of their ways. All it took was a bit of typing on MN, acquiring the right telephone and explaining the situation to the right person.

A big thing in militancy is your time vs theirs.
A good fighter isn't just someone who can hit hard, he also has to be able to take a punch.

Although I'm not advocating force one little bit, the principle applies equally to bloody minded holding your ground.

If you're going to deal with jobsworths then you have to be prepared to simply stand there causing trouble by your mere presence for enough time for them to realise that they either give in or call for reinforcements.
That will make you late, it will be inconvenient,and it's not impossible that threats will be made, but remember what I said about mobile phones ?

So, are Chez Gerard staf still bullying mothers with children ?

nosey bump from me!

Also powder, there used to be one in Bristol about 4yrs ago, it closed down though. It was a shame, as I was childfree at the time and they had a lovely little courtyard out the back.

bump