to ask what you think about Corbyn and Lammy's suggestion that houses of the rich should be requisitioned to give to homeless Grenfell victims?

[nutter19]

I am not sure what to think about it. On the one hand I agree that there are a lot of very big houses in the borough that are empty and could be used to house the homeless rather than left empty.

On the other hand, it seems a bit sinister to think they would just take private property off those they deem rich.

What do other people think?

Rehousing everyone in the area might be impossible because one obvious lesson is don't build 24 story tower blocks.

If this did happen then presumably the families moving in would be responsible for utility bills on these huge properties?

How would they even afford that?

Setting them up to fail

I think mr corbyn should have done and just bounce about at the foot of the tower shouting "look at me look at meee".
The spectacle would be little more distasteful than the one he presents currently. The attempts to get mileage out of this hideous tragedy are repellent.

We need it to deflate. it will be painful, very painful, but it has to happen.

I think that's too painful and potentially too damaging for the economy. I think we need it to flatline for many years in nominal terms (i.e. deflate in real terms), to allow wages etc to catch up. It's what has happened (sort of) in Germany. Was the obvious thing to do in 2008 - except Osborne chose to pander to the Daily Mail types and stole it up.

The government is forcing sales of actually owned and occupied properties and businesses for hs2 but for big business you don't get cries of Marxism and communist Russia. One man started winding down his business as his land was being bought - hs2 plans changed and now he has no business- the government don't give a shit - hs2 is big business, suggest helping people who have lost love by using unoccupied properties and it's dangerous socialism - wtf

But I'd draw that line at requisitioning houses. Seizing property for the broader "good" has never ended well.

Except, you know, all the houses, farms and estates we requisitioned in WW2 for the war effort, compulsory purchasing little two up two downs so that people could be moved to proper housing with sanitation, the fact some farms had to be purchased to extend railways etc (not HS2, which is ridiculous.)

If not for compulsory purchase, the country wouldn't have half the stuff it does. Sometimes it just needs to happen and I feel this is one of those cases.

Rehousing everyone in the area might be impossible because one obvious lesson is don't build 24 story tower blocks.

I don't think that's an obvious lesson at all. Loads of new build, high priced properties around London are in high rise blocks, including those that are empty because they've been bought as investments from overseas. I bet they all have more than adequate fire precautions.

More spread out housing is better though, especially for those with children and those with disabilities.

I think we need massive investment from central govt. to local authorities so they can start buying land and building social housing again on a big scale. Decent, safe housing that people can afford to live in and that doesn't harm their health or take their life.

I don't believe in austerity because a tiny proportion of people have been allowed to get shockingly rich in recent years. The money is there, we just need the will to close the loopholes that allow this situation to continue and continue getting worse.

I watched some sensationalist programme recently on something like Channel 4 or Channel 5. It was about property in London and showed shamefully how all these properties were being snapped up by Russians and Arabs who never had any intention of ever living there but just purchased them for status (ie- to say they owned a property in Mayfair etc).

This and the fact that people who already have very little and have been burned out of their homes is just fucking outrageous. I despair.

The most heartbreaking thing for me was that they stuck old people with limited mobility and disabled people right at the top of the block. Just shocking.

Maybe there was nowhere else to put them

They can only work with properties which are available at the time the disabled/elderly needed the home

You try to make it sound somehow deliberate

pencils there is loads of social housing and new build projects here. Loads. Very short housing lists. 40 mins outside London

However it seems everyone wants London

Perhaps they should have built more council housing then... it's housing 101 that you don't put a disabled person at the top of a 28 Storey tower block.

Its unworkable and i saythat as someone whos rented for most of their life.

The council are now admitting allegedly that not everyone can be housed locally. They'll have to leave their friends, school, maybe to an uncommutable distance from work. We all know that of course. We also know that requisitioning other people's property would take too much legal wrangling to happen. But I do think that there has to be a discussion on this topic, something is wrong when houses and flats are left empty as investments and others can't find affordable place to stay. This is part of a wider problem so absolutely this issue needs addressing.

The houses bought by the rich and left empty aren't going to impact on those needing social housing!

The houses bought by the rich and left empty aren't going to impact on those needing social housing!

Except as pointed out earlier, it has a ripple effect.

It is not 'our rich' buying them it is foreign 'super rich'. Our rich get priced out and move to MC areas, thus dragging those house prices up, the MC have children who then can only afford to buy in working class areas, thus pushing those house prices up, the working class then move further out and so on and so on until eventually the people living and working in London cannot afford to live there.

I think that's too painful and potentially too damaging for the economy

in the long run, it's the best thing for the economy.

I hope these central banks and governments pay for the mess they have caused in all these countries. The whole point of the central banks are price stability. talk about missing the mark.

The key to understanding Marxism is to remember that no one except the State is allowed to amass wealth.
People crying out to tax the rich, to steal their property need to understand that they, are in fact seen as rich also.
See the failed USSR for a failed reason.

User in your hatred of 'Marxism' you forget that actually we are talking about people who have lost everything in a horrific fire and need to be rehoused as a matter of urgency... not stealing homes from the rich.

Serously, give your head a wobble

To use a tragedy to point score on the wealthy versus the poor is appalling. People died. And he's using their deaths for political leverage and making a suggestion he knows is illegal,its not even an option, and helps none of these families. It doesn't get much worse in my opinion. It's beyond appalling. He should have some respect.

And Bluntness poster after poster has told you it is entirely an option and in fact has a solution which has been used in the past in times of crisis.

I agree maddening, but I guess that only affects poor subjects outside London so is different...?

For me there is a basic principle on a small island that housing should be for living in, not selling off to rich foreigners as an 'investment' that won't even be rented out or worse used to launder millions of pounds of ill gotten gains from Russian Oligarchs. And if that makes me Marxist then guilty as charged.

It's bloody obvious what he meant.
Too right. Trying to stir up class hatred.
He should keep his trap shut in the aftermath of a national tradgedy.

There are people who need to be rehoused NOW Purits.
Traumatised families who have nothing and nowhere to go.

Serously I despair at some of these posters who feel it is appropriate to spout their crap about Marxism and Communism and hatred of JC when the focus should be solutions for rehousing these poor poor people.

Personally I cannot see the problem with the state stepping in and temporarily requistioning empty properties so that the Grenfall residents who have experienced unimaginable trauma have somewhere to live which is in their local community [close to friends and family] while permanent accomodation is sought.

Trying to stir up class hatred.

This is utter nonsense. How many rich British people have entirely uninhabited flats in central London?

For me there is a basic principle on a small island that housing should be for living in

In which case, you can build some tax disincentives into the system - e.g. Higher rate stamp duty for non doms; penal council tax and CGT rates for non or under occupied properties etc etc,. That could be a sensible, non reactive policy.

He ought to give up his own home(s) if he thinks that's such a brilliant idea.