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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask what you think about Corbyn and Lammy's suggestion that houses of the rich should be requisitioned to give to homeless Grenfell victims?

608 replies

nutter19 · 16/06/2017 12:34

I am not sure what to think about it. On the one hand I agree that there are a lot of very big houses in the borough that are empty and could be used to house the homeless rather than left empty.

On the other hand, it seems a bit sinister to think they would just take private property off those they deem rich.

What do other people think?

OP posts:
ChampagneSocialist1 · 16/06/2017 19:21

Property law is the cornerstone of our democracy and rule of law ,enshrined in Magna Carta. We risk destabilising our society if governments start requisitioning properties without going through the proper processes:
The rights outlined in the Magna Carta are what allowed some European and Anglophone countries to consider the rule of law as well as the balance of power and property rights as pillars for preserving freedom against authoritarianism. Property rights have been defined since the 13th century. Man has an inherent right to what he creates and it cannot be taken from him, whether it be a farmer’s crop or an author’s pages, an artist’s painting or an engineer’s program. The codification of property rights has spurred man to innovate and create: the reason the West has housed great innovators and made huge discoveries is because men can freely reap the fruits of their labor without fear of seizure by the government.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 16/06/2017 19:25

It's a typical Corbyn speech a thought of his (that only he could possibly have) with nothing substantial to back it up with and it can't be done

Many mp's been saying for years that something is very wrong with property being used as an overseas investment

We have a Labour mayor will he tackle the issue

I doubt it, it has for many years supplied london with huge amounts of money and london is now somewhat reliant on that

Requisition all sounds like the good thing to do but do we really want the state deciding what they can do with our own property

user1487175389 · 16/06/2017 19:27

If by the rich you mean foreign oligarchs who've invested their dodgy post communist money in what would have once been beautiful family homes, never even stepped inside them and allowed many of them to fall into disrepair, then yes, the council should be putting compulsory purchase orders on them and allowing people to live in them as long as it's safe to do so.

FizbotheClown · 16/06/2017 19:27

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/oldham-tops-list-of-most-deprived-towns-in-britain-a6940696.html

Well let's hope he gets his facts right if he's here to stay.

Frankly I find his desire to make political capital out of this thoroughly unpleasant.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 16/06/2017 19:40

But how would you know that it is dodgy post communist money

Laws could be put in place to make it much harder for property to be used as a foreign investment and should have been done years ago but taking over property doesn't it have to be proved first that It is never used and who shall pay for that

PencilsInSpace · 16/06/2017 19:47

Petition here: Ensure all Grenfell Tower Residents are Rehoused there when the site is rebuilt.

It's inevitable that people will be rehoused out of borough short term but there should be a commitment to rehousing within borough, in proper social housing, when the site is redeveloped.

Pressure needs to be applied now because you can bet there are property developers already champing at the bit and sketching out plans for the site.

This awful tragedy must not become an opportunity for further social cleansing.

PencilsInSpace · 16/06/2017 19:49

Fizbo do you not understand the difference between a 'town' and a 'ward'?

ChampagneSocialist1 · 16/06/2017 19:49

Only a certain percentage of this country's property should be sold to non resident overseas investors and they should also be charged double the amount of stamp duty

QuietCorday · 16/06/2017 19:51

I'm with BabychamSocialist, TabascoToastie and Lillian Gish on this.

The situation with foreign investment into the British property market should have never be allowed to get as bad as it has. We now have streets of vacant homes and blocks of nearly empty apartment buildings in many major British cities bought as investment opportunities by wealthy foreign nationals or multinational corporations. Up until 2010, many of the corporate owners of these homes didn't even pay council tax due to a loop hole in the law, regardless of whether the property was vacant or inhabited by corporate employees. Indeed, the law has only just recently changed so that foreign owners and investors have to pay British capital gains tax if they sell a British property.

Yep, they weren't even paying CGT when they were flipping flats.

I can't believe people aren't more incensed by the fact that people who actually live in this country can't afford to buy property here because foreign non-dom millionaires are pricing them out of the market.

Neither can I, Lillian. What has happened in London is beyond a joke. Land and property is a limited resource, and needs to be productive. What we have are "void" households in prime properties in the heart of a national economy where inhabitants paying no VAT or income tax in Britain. It's worse than parasitic, as it then pushes up costs for British nationals and residents who have to live further and further from their places of work.

But I do have to say one thing ... all this crap started under Blair's Labour government. I remember back in 2001, there were concerns about the repercussive effect of shed loads of foreign capital pouring into London prime real estate and how it was pushing the British rich out into previously middle class areas, and how that was then pushing the middle classes out into previously working class areas .... and on and on until we get to the point in 2017 where a two bed flat above a chicken shop on Peckham High Street now costs £300K.

And all that money paid by the poor sods trying to service very high mortgages or paying stupid rents on overpriced properties is money that cannot be spent elsewhere in the economy. It's money that can't be spent on a new kitchen, a new sofa, meals out, a dishwasher, or new clothes, which then has a knock-on effect in terms of wider employment and VAT take.

Shrinking the scope of economic demand for goods and services in this way is really dangerous for an economy. There a fair amount of evidence to suggest that it was the dangerously small pool of demand for goods and services in the US that actually created the circumstances for the Great Depression after the Wall Street Crash. Because once the wealthy lost their cash in the Crash, there was no-one else that could afford to buy the goods and services to keep the economy afloat.

Iflyaway · 16/06/2017 19:53

They have already pledged that they are going to re-house locally.

Really? I do fuck hope they do.

Funny how social housing has not been a help to anyone anywhere before... how does that work then...?

Iflyaway · 16/06/2017 19:57

Maybe the Duke of Westminster might step up?...

don't hold your breath

deeedeee · 16/06/2017 19:59

I just heard that fucking ridiculous double barrelled Melon Tory Councilor bloke say on radio 4 that it might take years to rehouse the people locally.

Ofcourse they should be put in the empty investment homes in their area. How can anyone think any other? Who do you want to protect? Homeless, grieving, poor people in need of a home near their support network or foreign investors who don't even pay council tax in the areas they land bank in.

this country is sick.

bluegreenyellow · 16/06/2017 20:05

'who don't even pay council tax' they do pay council tax please stop lying deedee maybe people believe in the principle if you buy something its yours to do as you please?

mrsBeverleygoldberg · 16/06/2017 20:06

I heard that there are empty flats in a new build nearby. Why not buy it as a council block and rehome people locally? I worry they'll be moved away from their community at no fault of their own.

bluegreenyellow · 16/06/2017 20:10

ifly away
'Maybe the Duke of Westminster might step up?...

don't hold your breath' what properties does the duke of wellington own in the local area as you previously said you wanted them housed locally?

bluegreenyellow · 16/06/2017 20:11

i meant westminster obvs

PencilsInSpace · 16/06/2017 20:13

They have already pledged that they are going to re-house locally.

Not good enough. They need to pledge to rehouse in borough, in social housing. Otherwise, neighbouring boroughs say 'can't do' and push the problem to the next neighbouring borough and before you know it, 'local' means out of London altogether.

The other danger is that people are not given another secure social housing tenancy. Since 2012 councils have been permitted to discharge their housing duty by finding people a private tenancy at market rent.

ElGatodelCanto · 16/06/2017 20:49

As if you can "acquire" people's property from them. It's enough of a job to evict squatters fgs! Complete nonsense and scaremongering and the last thing anyone needs.
Are we likely to see the Shadow Cabinet giving up any of their second homes any time soon?
It's very easy to show up at the scene of a disaster and announce "questions must be asked" (you don't say JC Confused) - then spout a load of hot air in an attempt at political point scoring. These council blocks have been unfit for purpose since the 70s. The ones in Labour boroughs are usually worse. Where was JC 30-40 years ago when they fell into disrepair? What did Labour do about the declining state of social housing when they were in power? Nothing.

BabychamSocialist · 16/06/2017 21:27

ElGatoDelCanto

This is the problem with you right-wingers, you always jump to "WILL LABOUR GIVE UP THERE HOMES?" - the answer is no, because there's NO FUCKING NEED TO.

There is ample empty housing in Chelsea, Kensington and the surrounding area. And it isn't even "taking property from someone" because at least 50% of the time they're owned by a faceless company in Panama or the Virgin islands. If you think that's OK, then I pity you.

chilipepper20 · 16/06/2017 21:40

There is ample empty housing in Chelsea, Kensington and the surrounding area. And it isn't even "taking property from someone" because at least 50% of the time they're owned by a faceless company in Panama or the Virgin islands. If you think that's OK, then I pity you.

the problem is that the government (both Labour and Tories) changed properties from homes to investments. that's what driving all these social problems. there are endless policies, some ostensibly to help the poor, driving up prices. they need to stop all of it.

But I'd draw that line at requisitioning houses. Seizing property for the broader "good" has never ended well.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 16/06/2017 21:42

Is anyone saying it's good that wealthy foreign investors own many properties that are often left empty

What is being said that local authorities taking over property is a very slippery slope and this form of investment has been allowed you can't suddenly take that away when nothing illegal has been done that is the sort of actions of a very corrupt dangerous undemocratic government

Regulations should have been tightened up years ago but there has been so much money made london has become somewhat reliant on this investment

chilipepper20 · 16/06/2017 21:42

And, unfortunately, vested interests are pushing the government, at great expense, on propping up the property market. We need it to deflate. it will be painful, very painful, but it has to happen.

chilipepper20 · 16/06/2017 21:44

What is being said that local authorities taking over property is a very slippery slope and this form of investment has been allowed you can't suddenly take that away when nothing illegal has been done that is the sort of actions of a very corrupt dangerous undemocratic government

what you can do is put in policies to discourage this, and you can do it now. Quadruple council tax on empty homes. that will really dig into margins.

itsatiggerday · 16/06/2017 21:51

Can someones explain to me how this would be different from Mugabe's 'requisitioning' of farms for black Zimbabweans? Also massive, unjustifiable inequality. But it really hasn't gone well.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 16/06/2017 21:52

Absolutely I agree with this or non U.K. residents not being able to buy property until they have lived and worked here for some time

But taking property over isn't the way forward