NDN wanting to put new fence right on the boundary

[soloula]

So we're in a new build property. Moved in at the end of March and are still getting round to doing our garden. We have a big slope so are wanting to get the garden split into two levels so need to get someone in as neither DH nor I are able to do something like this ourselves. So our garden is just the soil the builders left and that's it until we get our finances sorted to get the garden done.

NDN has extended the patio the builders have left with a raised bed filled with chuckles. It is right up to the boundary, as it the path the builders put round the side of his house. We have the same issue on the other side of the property with NDN2 as our path is right up to the boundary. The builders have put a small fence in - just posts with a single slat between them, just a couple of feet high - to mark the boundary.

As NDN has done his garden he is keen to get a fence but when he spoke to us a few weeks ago I explained it would be a few months before we had the money and also that I knew someone who could do it cheaper than his guy (maybe by £200, so £100 less than his guy each when we're going halfers). We also have an issue that as we're wanting to split the levels, the lower posts would end up exposed when we dig into the garden at the bottom and would need reset. Not an issue if he erected a fence in his side but if it's on the boundary then for us to avoid affecting the fence we'd have to dig well inside our own garden, effectively losing a foot or so of garden. NDN was happy to wait and for me to get my guy out to quote too. That was how we left it.

We had a landscaper out last week to quote for getting the levels sorted and slabbed etc and I took a few days to get a loan sorted once we knew the price. Gave the landscaper the go ahead yesterday so we're just waiting for plans to get drawn up before we get a date but should be in the next six weeks. I planned to chap NDN last night to let him know we would be able to get the fence in a few weeks but he was out.

So this morning his guy turned up to do the fencing. I am assuming NDN decided to go ahead without us and pay for it all himself but I had to tell his guy that we'd need to see about the fence in a few weeks once our levels were sorted. Guy was quite rude to me.

AIBU to expect NDN to consult us if he's getting work done on the boundary?

Also - aibu to make NDN wait for a boundary fence until we have our garden issues resolved? My understanding is that if he wants a fence then it should be in his garden and anything on the boundary should be agreed by both parties. I'm annoyed that he's gone and done this behind our back and it now makes it look like we're being the awkward ones stopping the work going ahead when we're just trying to work round the awkward situation the builders left i.e. nowhere to put the fence except on the boundary unless we go to lots of expense of moving paths etc. His guy has bought in the fence posts and dropped them and the mixer off this morning. What if, once our garden is done in a few weeks and we are in a position to get the fence, I don't want to pay his guys price and my guy is cheaper?

Hate this as we don't want to fall out as we've just moved it.

I'm no expert but in all the houses I've lived in one side boundary belongs to you and the other to your neighbour, ie you are responsible for maintaining one boundary, they the other. In our current home we are responsible for the left hand side, and our neighbours the boundary on our right.

I've never heard of each boundary being maintained 50/50 by both parties. But maybe that's a new build thing? It just sounds like it would cause complications being jointly responsible (as it has for you).

Sorry I've been no help whatsoever I realise!

You'll be responsible for one fence, usually on the right as you look away from the back of the house. Itll be on your deeds.

agree with badtaste, look at the deeds, usually the fence to (eg) the left is your responsibility, so the nieghbour on the right is responsible for the fence on the right of your garden (or vice versa)
In that case I think the fence runs along the boundary line, with the posts on the back and the flat fencing facing their garden.(so the flat fencing would be the width of the post to their side of the boundary.

BUT in principle, if it is not a joint/shared boundary like that, then the fence should be put on their side, not crossing the boundary.

Our house is old, and our deeds don't say, so when our fence blew down last year we split cost with the neighbour (and dh and the nieghbour did the work together) but that is unusual.

I suspect the neighbour got bored of waiting, they didn't know you were just about to do it. If the level of the land is going to change, what is goign to hold back the raised/lowered soil for the level?
Are you putting in retaining walls down the length of the boundary? If not, won't his soil slide down onto your lowered level?

It is the fence to his right, our left looking out the back so going by what everyone's saying that will be his responsibility but I thought he couldn't put it right on the boundary. That what we did in our old place - we had the posts in our garden butting up to the boundary but not crossing and the slats were on our side facing in. Our neighbour's on our left did the same. Our neighbour in the right moved and someone else moved in and did up the garden and got new fencing more to suit the style and because of how we'd done our fence, up to but not over the boundary, he was able to do the same.

I think the issue's been complicated slightly as the builders have been making a tidy profit doing the fencing and getting everyone to split the cost so it's kind of become the done thing to go halfers on both sides, rather than just paying for one.

I think you're right steppemum and he probably did get bored waiting. I just wish he'd told us when he decided to do it though and I could have told him last week we were in the process of moving things along and would be able to get it soon. I would never be getting something major like that done without a wee courtesy knock to let us know.

Oh and yes - retaining wall or gabion baskets or something to shore up the soil, although it's only about 60/70cm at the deepest and same level as his at the bottom, and only a couple of metres long so nothing major but enough that it could be an issue for one or two posts nearer the deeper part and we'd need to replace them and set them deeper which could be avoided if we do it once we're sorted.

I think that you should speak to your landscapers before speaking to your neighbour. They will be able to reassure you. I am guessing that when they dig out your lower level, they will build a retaining wall support/gravel boards on the boundary line. So it will still look the same.

OP if the boundary on that side is his responsibility, he can put whatever kind of boundary marking (fence, hedge, whatever) he wants, on the actual boundary to mark it. If you then want to do anything different to his boundary side you need to do it on the inside of that boundary, on your land.

Also if you then want to make changes/alterations to the fence and posts he has put there, you can only do it with his permission as it is his property.

Check which boundary is your responsibility. Ours is the one on the left as we look out from the house to the back garden so you may be wrong in your assumption that it's your neighbour's boundary to do with as they will. I also don't see how you would lose a foot of garden in landscaping it

You will have a T on your plans for your fences. We are newbuild a 2 out of 3 fences are ours.

As far as I know it has always been the left hand side of the boundary that your neighbours are responsible for, I also cannot imagine how you can loose a foot of garden we had fencing from a previous neighbour encroach our garden by 8/9" but we turned a blind eye to it,it would be awful if you fell out with both neighbours in what should be a pleasant time for you all in your new homes.Bear in mind some neighbours are very territorial though and insist keeping strictly to the boundary when a bit of give and take would work wonders,can you get your landscaper and neighbour together for a chat and sort things

OK, I don't thin I was clear. It isn't automatically the left or the right.

It will state it on the deeds, as Dixie said, it should be marked with a T. You do really need to know this before you proceed.

I think you can get a copy of your deeds from landregistry website for a few pounds. easier than getting a copy from mortgage company.

You'll be responsible for one fence, usually on the right as you look away from the back of the house

This isn't necessarily true

You will have a T on your plans for your fences

This also isn't necessarily true

It may be that there is nothing helpful in the deeds and that there is no mention of boundaries or fences.

As mentioned by a pp you need to check and double check your deeds. You should also check his to be on the safe side. He can do what he wants on his property but he can't put a fence on the boundary without your permission. If it's going to be a shared fence then everything needs to be agreed in writing beforehand.

I'd try and get it sorted as amicably and as thoroughly as possible. Get EVERYTHING in writing. What you do now will set up a precedent that will last for years so you might as well get it right.

In my old house I owned the fence at the bottom of the garden, and each side fence was jointly owned with the adjoining neighnour.

I had read my deeds, was seeing my solicitor about something else and asked him to confirm my understanding. He was very quick to tell me I was wrong, then he read the deeds and had to take it back, I had correctly read the deeds. He said he had never seen this before.

It's not automatically the left fence. Ours our jointly owned, as I discovered when my NDN chainsawed through my trellises.

Not all houses have specific fences to be maintained by each property. All of our boundaries are shared, there is no 'T' on the deeds on any of the boundary lines. So we spilt fence costs with neighbours.

We seem to be responsible for all three of our shared boundaries, both sides and back!

I'm assuming you're in Scotland OP?
The laws regarding fences are different to England (which everyone seems to be talking about on this thread) In every property I've owned in Scotland we've shared the cost of fencing with neighbours.

I'm not in Scotland and we share fencing costs with our neighbours.

Theres no fence responsibility marked on deeds to my house so we are 50/50 with neighbours on both sides.

Its not always clear cut.

The arrange,ent to 'share' a fence on the boundary line is often but not always an informal arrangement. Sometimes there are covenants or whatever that require you to maintain a shared fence.

BTW I'm not an expert just speaking from experience so probably best to get proper legal advice if needed

Yeah in Scotland and managed to get my lawyer today and she said we're jointly liable. Spoke to our gardener and he says he should be able to do the work around a fence but it's not ideal and if NDN can wait it'd be better and save hassle. I'm annoyed he's just gone and arranged it s without popping round to tell us. As well as the issues with the levels, I'd like a say in what fence we get and not feel compelled to ask for permission if we want to paint it, hang baskets or what not on it. It becomes awkward if it's a joint fence that he's assumed full responsibility for by paying for it.

Should add I know I need to speak to him but I'm out today as it's DD1's dancing show tonight but I did try and pop round after nursery was done before heading to my mums. He'll think we're avoiding him and I'm really not - I want this sorted as much as he does. Fed up as it's my birthday today and I've had all this to deal with and been chasing the builders as they're still to do snagging and all I want is a big glass of wine tonight and I've to sit through three hours of dancing to watch DD for about ten minutes, if that.

If he pays for it and puts it on his side of the boundary he can put up whatever he wants. If it straddles the boundary (as it appears to do if it is jointly owned or you are at least jointly responsible for it) then he cannot change it without your permission. If he puts it up on his side and you don't like the look of it you can always erect your own fence to hide it.

Happy birthday OP 🍷🍷🍷

Three hours of dancing 💃🏻 sounds a bit grim but just think how good that wine will taste when you finish

Hopefully when you speak to him then you can get it sorted. If it ends up that you are going to pay for half the fence then of course you should have a say in how and what is erected. Even if you neighbour says he will pay for it then you should get him to confirm in writing that it's jointly owned.