to think that end of tenancy inspections are just yet another way of ripping tenants off?

[Thisarmingman]

I mean, really, you can lose money from your deposit which afaik is supposed to cover damage because your extractor fan isn't taken apart and cleaned or the inside of the kitchen cupboards aren't pristine? Since when was that damage?

Seems like landlords aren't happy enough getting tenants to bankroll their lifestyle - they want tenants to prepare the property for the next person too which is surely the landlord's job.

People who own houses and sell them don't have to do this on pain of losing several hundred pounds. It's just a rip off.

There are LL who will try to milk the system, there are tenants who cause thousands of £ in damages, so YABU OP.

Place was perfectly clean - just a couple of crumbs in the kitchen cupboard. I spent all bastard day cleaning it having been kicked out because the landlord is selling. Quite surreal about the crumbs.

Agency: this cupboard is absolutely filthy. I've never seen such a dirty kitchen.
Me: Looks clean to me.
Agency: there are a large number of crumbs here.
[There were at most three]
Me: what, these? [Wipes them with my finger]
Agency: you can't do that. You can't clean during the official check out inspection. I need to take photos as evidence. You are officially handing the keys over.

Stupid leaching cunt. Should have told her to take a picture of my middle finger.

When we moved out of our rented accommodation 8 months ago we left the house immaculate - far cleaner than when we moved in. However we forgot to wipe inside 1 draw and there was a single cobweb behind the fridge. The landlord wanted £450 to clean this. He was a bully who shouted and screamed at me for hours, reducing me to tears, turned up at my new house more than once to continue his campaign, and continually called my mobile at all hours of the day and night to continue the shouting until I agreed the deposit deduction (I had a lot going on and no energy to fight it). I feel ashamed that I allowed myself to be bullied.
Not all landlords are honest and fair.

The deposit on that place was £1500 - so they basically told me I could either have £1430 within a few days, or dispute it and probably get back the whole £1500 but in a few months.

That's bollocks, sorry

The deposit protection scheme means that you'd get the undisputed portion back right away and just the disputed amount would be held then released once the arbitration process has finished

I went to arbitration over most of my deposit from my old home and won 95% of it back. It's incredibly easy and is up to the landlord to prove they have "suffered a financial loss" rather than the onus being on the tenant.

If ANYONE has ridiculous deductions from your landlord please please go to arbitration, it really is so easy and the chances of you getting your money back are very good

We got half our deposit taken away as they found a spider web!!! It was a 300year cottage with beams, obviously there would be an odd web around. We'd spent two days cleaning thoroughly and there was a web we'd missed and they charged us 450 pound cleaning fee!!! So glad I'm not renting anymore it was a complete and utter rip off. 2000 pounds just to move in a crappy delipidated 550 puns a month rental. The ceiling fell down towards the end and the landlady was unhinged.

I've properly read through the thread

PLEASE PLEASE familiarise yourself with your rights as tenants. NONE of these stories about hundreds of pounds being taken off you for tiny amounts of cleaning should be possible, but you are LETTING the landlords take this money off you!!

Please please please read up on the deposit protection scheme and the arbitration process and fight back if landlords try and take money off your deposit at the end!

I am shocked at how many people just let landlords take so much money off at the end!

I agree with you completely OP, it feels like many landlords are greedy and out to rip people off for extra money (obviously not all, as I'm sure there are also many decent landlords out there).

I lived in a shared house a few years back and when I moved my landlord refused me my deposit because she apparently had to replace the mattress for being broken, the carpet for a stain and paint the walls due to nicotine staining.
Firstly I didn't smoke so certainly no nicotine staining, but she said it must have been from guests; she came round once when a friend was smoking in the garden (which was allowed), so I presume this is what she was trying to use against me.
Also the apparent stain was allegedly hidden by the bed, well considering the room was far too small to move anything about and all furniture was exactly how she had put it, I don't see how I could have managed to stain the carpet under the bed.
Finally, the mattress was awful and the springs were all easily felt, I had actually told her this a few times shortly after I had moved in, but when she did nothing about it I bought a mattress topper. I was however rather naive and clueless about renting then, so hadn't realised that because I didn't put in writing the mattress complaints, I had no proof to do anything about it.

When I told landlord that she was being highly unfair and my £300 deposit was actually being used to purchase my baby's pram as I was 8 months pregnant, she simply told me that I was an irresponsible person for having a child that I clearly couldn't afford if I was relying on my deposit back to pay for such an important item.

I'm now in HA, and honestly I will never ever privately rent again if I can help it.

Queenmor- that's not true . Having been through this several times myself nothing comes out until you both click "ok" on the amounts.

I moved out of a flat that had rats and mould and the landlord took half my deposit for "leaving junk in the shed". Junk which I hadn't left I had actually asked them to clear because it was where the rats were living. But I was faced with going to court or handing over £150.

People also often rely on a reference from their old landlord for a new place, which means you don't want to argue this.

Our last landlord handdd us a £200 bill for all sorts of crap and we argued it successfully. It just shows how letting agents try it on to see what they can get. Everywhere I've moved into has been dirty when I moved in and then they claim it needs a professional clean when I leave. This is on top of the £500 fees they charge for paperwork. We have a good landlord now who fixes shit and just doesn't use deposits .

I know a landlord who openly admits that if the students he rents to disagree with their deposit deductions he just waits it out because they need that deposit more than him so will cave.

Yes #notalllandlords but the deposit protection schemes don't go far enough, with the junk landlord I rang them up and asked to use their arbitration service, but you can only do that if landlord agrees to, so that was useless.

Mortificado it isn't bollocks. It happened in 2010, so perhaps things have changed. My memory of it - which might not be perfect - is that they said we could either accept the £70 charge or they'd dispute the full deposit amount. I certainly remember them telling us, perhaps in an inaccurate threat, that it would take months to resolve if we didn't accept. I'm sure you're right that we could and would have won, but it didn't seem a fight worth fighting. We were moving out of the house because we'd broken up and both just wanted the whole thing to be over. This was a major high street letting agent chain, by the way, not a private landlord or an obviously shady operation.

I did all my renting in a very expensive place where places were in very short supply. Perhaps because of this, it was an awful place to rent; literally everyone I know has a story of the letting agent (there was also almost no property rented directly from the landlord available) doing outrightly illegal things.

To be honest, in my experience it's the letting agents. I've never had a private landlord unfortunately and I've been stung massively by ridiculous fees from letting agents. £125 to renew a contract. Tried to charge me £50 for stains in the liquid tray of the washing machine - which was there when I moved in and wouldn't shift no matter what I did. £75 for end of tenancy inspections. My anger is reserved for letting agents.

I think the idea of taking a deposit is a good one as sometimes people trash the place, but hate how it has become a way to gain money from tenants. I have always cleaned well when I left a property, yet they would undoubtedly claim all sorts at check out, I had one company that took photographs of crumbs in the cupboard etc that I had missed (we are talking one or two) or a tiny amount of dust, and then charged me loads for deep cleaning.

My best landlord was one whose email I had - we both were quite pissed off with the letting agency. They made all sorts of claims, but I sent him the photos I'd taken at checkout (place was in good condition) and he told them in no uncertain terms to give me all of my deposit back as they were trying to claim the lot. He was a really nice guy!

I own my own home now and am so glad to not have to deal with the check outs and house inspections and all that nonsense!

Margaret I'm not saying you're lying - I'm saying them telling you that you weren't entitled to your undisputed bit back is bollocks

Of course you should leave the inside of kitchen cupboards clean. I would say to anyone renting word of caution, take lots of pics when you move in. My DD moved into a privately rented house, there was a tiny mark on the stair wall, and minute burn on lounge carpet, the agent kept her deposit, to redecorate and she had to buy a new carpet.

The deposit dispute process is not "going to court", it's all done online and is very very easy

If your deposit is £2k and the landlord is trying to take £1k of it for various things, you are entitled to the undisputed £1k back right away. The other bit is held until the dispute process is finished.

The landlord cannot withhold the total deposit. It is your money and up to them to argue that they're entitled to it.

You lost any sympathy I had at it seems like landlords aren't happy enough getting tenants to bankroll their lifestyle

WTF? Landlords have to pay for a gas safety cert, elec safety cert, smoke alarms, for any new items that the property needs, for fire retardant furniture, for inspections, for a management company, and we have to pay the mortgage, insurance etc etc.

When I was last a landlord, my tenant left the flat in a disgusting state - mould everywhere, loo seat ripped off, fridge broken, cupboard doors ripped, off, absolutely filthy - the flat was RANK. And she had fucked off with her last month's rent as the 'deposit' so I couldn't even withhold her deposit to pay fot all the cleaning. Fucker.

So I don't know what you're whingeing about.

It would be ideal if everyone could abide by the rules and play fair - so if a flat has been professionally cleaned before you move in, you do the same when you move out.

Management companies should be checking for normal cleanliness, not things like taking apart extractor fans, though.

It's certainly possible (and well within character) that they outright lied to us. However, looking at it now, I can't see what's to stop them disputing the whole amount? They'd obviously never win that in arbitration, but there's no punitive element, is there?

My anger is reserved for letting agents.

Yeah, absolutely. In my ecperience they are crap - charge a fortune and do fuck all for their money (on both sides - they were crap at dealing with anything I wanted done, and also crap when my tenant contacted them. It was easier for my tenant to contact me direct).

YABU. There are good and shit landlords, and good and shit tenants.

I worked as a letting agent many years ago. It is disgusting to see the state in which some people will leave a property. We had one set of tenants who, before they left, shat on the lounge floor.

And wiped their arses on the curtains.

Seriously.

thereallochnessmonster I'd love to be able to contact my LL directly but she stipulated very early on that everything had to go through the letting agent. I understand that they take away the hassle but I also know that they charge the LL every time they get in touch with her. If it was my money I certainly wouldn't be giving it to a letting agent! My garden fence panels were damaged in a storm last year. I replaced them myself, at my expense, and at the next inspection the agents told me that I should have sought permission first and I should be charged for 'making unauthorised alterations to the property'. For replacing two broken timber fence panels with two new identical timber fence panels. I shit you not.

Agree that letting agents are cunts. In their eagerness to lord it over tenants they seem to forget that their "job", such as it is, depends on us. It's us tenants out grafting who are supporting the whole bloody lot of them - agents, landlords, the lot. And then they make you homeless before giving you grief about three fucking crumbs in one cupboard. Fucking arseholes.

In their eagerness to lord it over tenants they seem to forget that their "job", such as it is, depends on us

Well, this is bollocks, or you've used some shitty agents. Here's an idea of what I had to do as an agent:

Work 6 days a week, 8.30am-6pm
Learn, understand and apply the law for compliance with ASTs
Issue Court proceedings and attend Court when tenants failed to pay
Manage the accounts of 4,000 tenants and about 1,200 landlords - on a rent days, that was a total nightmare
Photograph properties and design letting leaflets
Create and update a website
Constant counter work, dealing with the public
Constant telephone work, dealing with the public
Pitch the business to new landlords and block managements
Run service charges for blocks
Deal with insurance queries
Finding and booking workmen for various repairs, sometimes in the middle of the night
Taking people on viewings - sometimes multiple people wanted the same property, which had to be handled very carefully
Doing detailed inventories
Drafting guarantees and dealing with guarantors where tenants failed to pay
Pursuing landlords who failed to pay commission/for repairs
Balance the cash till
Balance the workmen's credit cards
Dealing with complaints

and that's just off the top of my head. It's a demanding job like any other, especially the Court work, the accounts work and pitching to large groups. And it really doesn't pay well. But it IS good fun, you get to meet lots of interesting people and poke around lots of properties!

I think it depends on the letting agent.

I can see it from both points of view. LLs need protection from terrible, filthy tenants who cause damage. But also good tenants can sometimes be penalised for every bump and cobweb left over.

We move out of my rented house later this year and I can definitely see our letting agents taking a big chunk of our deposit for the general wear and tear that happens with time (despite taking care and maintaining this house for 3 years as if it were our own. Keeping it clean, gardening and relaying the lawn e.t.c)

Photographs and videos. That's what I took regularly throughout my tenancy when I realised what a twat my landlord was. It was so helpful in court when the landlord tried to make out I'd damaged things when I hadn't. So yes, the end of tenancy inspections are a waste of time and money.

My favourite moment was when he told the judge I had moved out having trashed the place, he done 'extensive' renovations for 12 hours with a team of workmen, then I broke back in to take photographs to claim that I had left the flat in a perfect condition. Which I had at the end of the tenancy. There were some beautiful moments in that hearing. I got my unprotected deposit back threefold.

Ha! Good for you.

I had one landlord who tried to stiff me for skip hire - he converted the flats back into a house after we left and that's what the skip was for. Also for repairs following storm damage that I'd reported to him at the time several months previously. I got it all back in the end but I had to go to court for it.