'Schools create obedient workers'

[moutonfou]

I was talking to somebody who's doing an education degree and had never even thought of this but it blew my mind a bit.

She said state education was (and still is) designed to create obedient workers - sit still, listen, wear this, do that, don't speak unless I tell you to, learn this.

She said the reason privately educated individuals still thrive and dominate the social/professional elite (aside from nepotism etc) is that they are taught to question, challenge, debate; they are given a sense of confidence/entitlement; essentially they are taught to be leaders.

I can see there are probably lots of exceptions and grey areas - great state schools where there are debate clubs, consultative ways of learning and teaching, etc. But for the most part it rang quite true with me.

Thoughts??

And we very much encourage questioning.

With each new intake we all decide together the rules for everyone to be safe and happy. When a child suggests a rule they can say and explain why that rule is necessary for everyone's happiness. There's no blind obedience.

In order to have debate, questioning and space for students go challenge ideas it is essential to have good behaviour management.

Trying to debate etc with poor classroom management creates a lot of noise and the appearance of work but nothing gets done.

Private schools have rules and expectations as well. The difference is their students and parents spend less time trying to send their child in in trainers / calling thr teacher to say 'I don't think they should have a detention. They were just...'
That's what makes the difference.

Obident workers? Clearly she hasn't heard the questioning lip some teachers get.
an environment where children can learn, whatever their ability, is necessary.
Debate is necessary and many have lost the art of it but I don't think that is the schools fault.

I haven't read all the thread but we were told this twice.
Once by my own teacher in state school.
Once by eldest child's private school head when they were there on a bursary.

We were told in both cases that private school kids where taught to lead and state to be led.

It was said because at the time private schools had debate clubs and politics clubs, they were taken to universities, they were taught how to pass the 11 plus exams, they wore suits and blazers while most state schools locally to me wore jumpers.

I think it is better now though

The problem with this argument is how do you falsify it? I mean, if the state doesn't provide education for 'the masses', then these people would say it's because they want uneducated, obedient workers. If they do, then it's because they want educated, obedient workers.

Surely it's up to the people making this claim to show how you can successfully provide mass education without rules about sitting still, learning this, etc? As far as I'm aware, nobody has ever succeeded in this.

I know home educated people. Someone in my sons' class was home educated to age 16. He has fitted in fine with the school - he is just like any other boy.

School has to ensure people will fit into a working environment as well as other good things too otherwise parents would not be happy and children would find it hard at work to obey their boss and turn up to work on time.

Mind you you always need obedience with a thinking mind too to question it - eg last night sadly people were told to stay in their flats whilst the block burned down. Obeying probably killed some of them. others decided to ignore the instruction and flee and lived.
I always remind my children of Brevik- very obedience good older teenagers on that island were told by Brevik he was the police and they accepted that authority. He then shot loads of them. it is a hard call sometimes as to whether or not to obey. Today DVLA sent out a warning about a scam with even has DVLA logo on it and warns you not to be taking in my scams (!) which is fake. Obedient citizens might well log in and give the details asked. Always question stuff. Use your common sense.