AIBU to ask for your opinions on home education?

[MooMooTheFirst]

For background-

I am a primary school teacher that currently teaches nursery and have felt increasingly uneasy about the school system in the UK over the past few years. I've got a 13 month old DS. I am confident I can deliver education at primary level up to year six.

The idea of home education has always seemed 'other' to me but I am slowly starting to feel like it would be right for us.

This isn't a goady post, genuinely looking for a variety of opinions.

I agree with Iljk that the Hold On To Your Kids book seems rather scary.

Also comes with a somewhat tenacious grip on history: they seem to imagine that every household before WW2 had a stay-at-home parent who engaged closely in the supervision of their teenagers and kept them safe from peer influence. Bollocks!

In the upper and upper middle classes, boys were sent to boarding school before they entered their teens and once there the closest influences would be older boys. As plenty of witnesses testify, there was virtually no supervision as to how those older boys engaged with their younger companions out of lessons: enforced sex was rife and extreme bullying common.

In the working classes, a child would often leave school at 12 or 13 and enter service, where they might be able to go home once a year. They would be completely at the mercy of older servants, masters and mistresses and, of course, "the young master".

The authors seem to believe that every family in Victorian and Edwardian England possessed a family farm large enough to support a whole family of adolescents. Downton Abbey, which is often slated for being rosy-tinted, is a whole lot more realistic about what life was actually like.

Now I am not saying that I want to go back to those days, but then again, very few people, unless completely dysfunctional are in any danger of that. Even children who board have a totally different experience these days. But I would like my own dc to have the chance to develop some of that self-reliance, just under safer circumstances.

And as a child of a very close-knit, very introspective and reclusive family, I am aware that my own extreme attachment to my parents and total belief in their ideas have not always helped me in adult life. In that sense, school did a good job of providing alternatives. Which is one reason why I did not feel safe to try HE myself: I could see myself as wielding too much influence. In a sense, I am too nice, I am (or at least appear) too well educated, I am too eloquent- they could have gone a long time before they discovered I don't have the keys to the universe.

But this is not to say that a different family could not HE perfectly well. After all, many of them do. Just that I probably shouldn't attempt it. Personality thing.

sorry, typo: "tenacious" should of course have been "tenuous". Comes from trying to write several texts at once

"I'm not sure anyone has said that school is gold standard for socialisation"

No they haven't, you're right, but it's still the main argument against HE for most people who voice an opinion.

I'm in education as well and am yet to meet a HE'd child who wasn't maladjusted.

With QTS (I assume), you're in a better position than many parents to teach your child at home but could you manage with pushing them in Yr 76 Maths, for example?

Wow, maladjusted! I would actually argue that it was school that damaged my child and that's why I took him out.

I could then say that is the reason why most of the kids I know are home educated - so therefore school is damaging for all children. But that would be an absolutely ridiculous generalisation wouldn't it?

Also, I hope by the time my son in y76 he might be mastering maths without my help.

My children were HE in the 80's and 90's when it was far less common and I did not drive.

One went to university and then became a firefighter. The other ran her own dance school after starting teaching dance classes and running her own dance company at 15.

Neither ever found a single issue with social skills etc. In contrast both have soared above their peers in their chosen professions due to their exceptionally good people skills.

The dance teacher is now a SAHM because like 80% of adults who were home educated she now home educates her own children. Her child went to school for a couple of years and she was horrified. There were no major issues it just seemed shoddy and second rate compared to HE.

We now know 100's of HE families and it is difficult to express how incredible and fantastic the kids and parents are.

HE is not for everyone but school is not either.

maladjusted
Your proof, what absolute rubbish.
how on earth would QTS have any bearing on facilitating learning opportunities for your children
For many it's a way to get away from the confines of the NC and the endless testing, targets and levels.
Yr 76 children must be very old to be at school Maybe look at your own maths.

Assuming that freeEnquiry means Yr7 maths, why on earth should a reasonably well educated parent not be all right with those?

I have just been trying to help ds with his GCSE maths and am thoroughly ashamed that I struggled with explaining some of the questions. But I know this is because of my own laziness as a teenager and that all my brothers (none of whom pursued maths beyond secondary) would have done much better. At least I know I speak better French than dd's French teacher and know more about Early Modern history than her history teacher.

That is a mistake teachers often make: the assumption that no parents can possibly be as educated as they are. I do respect teachers: most of the ones I have met do a great job. I only wish they would respect parents in return.

MyWhatICallNameChange

I don't think it's an "absolutely ridiculous generalisation" . I've been a teacher for longer than I care to remember and a headmistress for over 25 years. I've know many thousands of children and at several times have been professionally involved in the HE community.

There have been a tiny minority of children for whom HE was the correct choice and this was generally for AEN reasons.

Of course those proclaiming its wonderfulness talk about how amazing their children are, went to uni when they were 12 and are now MDs, but what would you expect?

Also, I hope by the time my son in y76 he might be mastering maths without my help.

I'm in Year 61 and despite several letters after my name to the contrary, I'm yet to master maths

I'm sure you took my point though. Without specialising in it (and an EYFS teacher is unlikely to have), a Year 6 student, perhaps working at a Year 8 level, will be doing maths which leave a surprisingly large number of adults stumped. Even if the adult masters it, teaching the best method(s) to a child is another thing entirely.

Gillybeanz

Your proof, what absolute rubbish.

Were you home educated? That sentence makes no sense.

how on earth would QTS have any bearing on facilitating learning opportunities for your children

Let me explain it slowly. QTS stands for Qualified Teaching Status. It is a post-grad qualification, attempting to ensure that the education of children is by qualified and intelligent adults who spend a long and intensive period at university (and then at schools), learning how to best teach. If you don't understand this then perhaps you're beyond help. Do you argue with a Dr asking what their training means before going to see the local homeopathitician?

x-post with cory

I think many teachers, especially at 'better' schools where parents tend to be better educated, understand that parents may be more knowledgeable than the teachers. You seem very keen to point this out.

The point you haven't grasped is that teaching isn't about knowledge, it's about imparting it. I have very detailed and specific knowledge about a very narrow field from my days at university. This is useless for 99.99% of teaching.

Yes, I meant Year 6. Again, it isn't about answering the questions or even explaining them; it's about giving the student then ability to answer them themselves. A different matter entirely.

"The point you haven't grasped is that teaching isn't about knowledge, it's about imparting it"

Myesss, but didn't the OP say she was a primary school teacher? I would assume that comes with some experience of imparting knowledge, wouldn't you?

Did you see my post about 5 up?

With QTS (I assume), you're in a better position than many parents to teach your child at home but could you manage with pushing them in Yr 76 [sic] Maths, for example?

It may sound like it's in contrast to my later comment but there's a balance. If you've an academically strong Year 6 student then the maths is tricky for the average adult. You need subject knowledge
and teaching ability. For that reason, my school has secondary teachers teach top set Year 5 and middle and top set Year 6 maths.

I have QTS, started off with lots of plans to follow the nc, they lasted one week before we found a far better way, for dd.
Any teacher who H.eds will tell you that QTS does not prepare you to H.ed, surprisingly enough we had no lectures or part of our PgCE or masters level credits that prepared us for this
So, as I stated before, has absolutely no bearing whatsoever.

I think the point I am trying to make is that I know plenty of HE'ders who have both a good education and teaching ability- though the latter may sometimes have been acquired by other means than being a school teacher.

And, as gillybeanz says, the kind of teaching required when HE'ding may be very different from that required when teaching a whole class.

For that reason, my school has secondary teachers teach top set Year 5 and middle and top set Year 6 maths.

But that's actually very unusual. Most primary age children are taught maths by teachers who are not maths specialists, and in some cases aren't terribly good at it. There is no reason to assume this isn't the case at the local schools of the OP. Also, there is a lot of controversy about the 'best' ways of teaching maths anyway.

Free

If you've an academically strong Year 6 student then the maths is tricky for the average adult. You need subject knowledge
and teaching ability. For that reason, my school has secondary teachers teach top set Year 5 and middle and top set Year 6 maths

I totally agree with you in a school setting where you have to enable the children to reach a predetermined level at a certain age. Your head would be for the chop if you didn't.
H.edders, thank goodness are not under this pressure and make their own time scale.
People used to ask if we were afraid our dd would get behind, her and our answer were behind what?

kesstrel

You get what you pay for

"For that reason, my school has secondary teachers teach top set Year 5 and middle and top set Year 6 maths."

Didn't happen in dc's school either.

No schools round here do that, my dd best friend was doing GCSE work her sb brought home from secondary.
because she was a level 6 already school weren't interested.

There were so many children who needed help to pass SATS they couldn't be interested in the more able. That's the system for most children these days.

I suppose posters who ask about advanced children or those who struggle must once again think that children who are H.ed only have access to learning from their own parents, which is a bit weird really. It's a bit like assuming a schooled child has one same teacher throughout their schooling.
I struggle with Maths and dh only scraped a C at O'level.
When we found it difficult to get a point across we sought help, heaven forbid
Now she is at school she has help 1 to 1 just the same as when she was H.ed

Now she is at school she has help 1 to 1 just the same as when she was H.ed

It's good to know that the school understand her maths is so far behind that she needs 1-2-1 help in numeracy. Doesn't this suggest that you failed her in a core subject? Why didn't the help you sought help get her to a level where she could at least fit in with a lower set group?

It comes down entirely to what is best for your child and your family.

HE is a heavy commitment (financially, timewise, etc.), so think about how it will work around you and your DH's careers and your family budget. You should go into it being aware that a lot of people will fail to understand your decision and feel that they can criticise you, even if you don't invite their opinions and even if they know absolutely nothing about you or your child (usually those who have very little understanding of what HE actually involves, as evidenced by this thread, but then I suppose you did ask).

I HE'd my oldest 3 children through primary and they went into school at around the age of 11/12 - their choice. One did very well (went on to get a first at a top university), the other two I would say 'survived' the experience. All three will now say, as adults, that school was a negative experience for them. None of them really struggled with the transition from HE to school though, so I wouldn't worry about that. HE in the early years gave them a resilience, and a flexibility and independence of thought that my younger, school-educated children do not have. I can still see the difference now even as adults/young people.

If you decide to HE to 18 years old, you don't need to 'do it all yourself'. There are online schools, tutors, etc., so your child can work with expert subject teachers (if you choose the structured education route).

Five years ago, I took my youngest son out of school as he was struggling a lot. (Eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia.) I hadn't planned for it, but reached a point where he so was utterly miserable that I felt I had no choice. He's due to start iGCSE courses with Interhigh in September. Best decision I ever made for him, it's been hard work but so worth it to see the dramatic improvement in his self-esteem.

I second the recommendation of checking out the facebook HE groups - there are some excellent ones. I've always found people very supportive and offering good advice.

Mumsnet is probably not the best place to get HE advice, especially the AIBU thread.

My ds who went to school like clock work with hardly a day's sickness still needed 1-2-1 in maths right up to the end of primary school (and is currently resitting his GCSE maths at age 17). By your logic, free, should I be asking the school what they did wrong so as not get him up to a higher level?

Cory

Yes. You should have asked a few years ago what the problems were and what they were doing to address them, how they were supporting him and what the expected outcome would be. HTH

We did discuss it at the time and they did support him. We had long discussions. School were very supportive. Hence the 1-2-1. He still struggled. Had extra tuition in secondary, and extra classes to prepare for the resit in Sixth Form. But has hopes that he has actually passed this time. If anyone failed him, I don't think it was the school(s).