To think that this was some sort of affair?

[Northend77]

8 years ago I found some emails on my husband's phone from someone called Kimberley Starr. He was asleep when I found the first one and I was in such shock I could hardly take in what I was reading and he woke up part way through. It said something about thanks for the pictures, can you send more and that he was on holiday at a villa with his mates (we were actually on day 2 of our honeymoon!!). He hugged me and convinced me she was "just a random" and I stupidly carried on with the relationship. I think I was just in shock as I'd previously come out of a controlling marriage and didn't want to believe I'd fucked up again! Anyway, over the next 3 years I found at least 4 other email conversations from the same woman so not exactly a random, as he called her. On one occasion I left my phone by my bed and it runs a sleep recorder (as I talk in my sleep and was curious to record myself) and I came home to find his voice on there talking to someone but it wasn't exactly sexual just something like "I care about you and am always here for you" in a really sympathetic way. He's a sociopath (actually diagnosis, not just me plucking things out of thin air) so I've never known him to show an ounce of sympathy!! I couldn't hear any other voices though. He no longer works shifts so he's not had many opportunities to show me any cause for it still going on but his phone is always password protected and I've never trusted him since the first instance anyway.

As you can guess, I'm still here but a recent argument has brought all this to the front of my mind again and I'm seething and even shaking whilst typing this. I plan to give him an ultimatum this weekend of "sort yourself out or leave" and this is one of my biggest points to raise but was it a sort of online affair or is this quite normal?

Yep, that was an affair
Even if they never did anything it sounds it's an emotional affair and more than likely continuing if his phone is password locked
How sure are you that he's actually going to work and not to see her?!

The problem with this kind of ultimatum is what exactly do you want him to sort out? Do you consider it an affair and if you do are you prepared to make good on your threat that it's over if he does it again?

This isn't normal in my relationship and if I found my husband texting another woman or getting pictures he'd be out on his arse.

You need to decide what your personal parameters are.

Kimberley Starr sounds like a fake name or a chat line/prostitute name.

He's a shit op sorry.

Apologies if anyone is actuskly called KS.

There's nothing normal about a relationship with a sociopath. Under what circumstances was he diagnosed and did you know before you married hm?

He's been diagnosed a sociopath and you're with him? Why? Please tell me you've not had children with a sociopath

He was diagnosed in his early 20s (37 now) and I did know when we met - I know, I am crazy but he really was such a breath of fresh air when we met and after my previous disaster of a marriage. We have 2 toddlers (twins) and he's a great father but I'm just sick of his childish sulks and mood swings (he can hold a grudge and give the silent treatment for days and days on end - which is where we are now). The recent event is something I did that was a bit thoughtless. DH is just starting out as a photographer and I helped out another photographer I know by taking our girls for a photoshoot for her portfolio. He seemed fine with this and even befriended her on facebook but when the pictures came through I posted a few and that's when he shut down. He slept on the sofa that night and told me in the morning that he didn't want to be near me because I had humiliated him! Apparently he was only pissed off because the pictures were really good!! I agree it was a thoughtless thing to have done, given photography is his passion but he's gone too far with it now. He even said if I'd had an affair then he would have been less bothered! I said I had previously been heartbroken by him and never forgotten any of it but I have moved on (even when I've NEVER had an apology for any of it - I'm such a fucking mug)

It's just all led me to wonder what all that behaviour really amounted to and what you would call it - was to say it was an online affair going too far?

When I said I want to tell him to sort himself out it's basically "I have been thoughtless but I have apologised, profusely so move on from it and if you can't and are going to act like this for any longer then just leave because I've had enough of it".

Under what circumstances was he diagnosed? I'm guessing it was involving the criminal justice system?
It's very rare for people with cluster b personality disorders to be diagnosed. I think that will be a positive thing for you if it comes to it.
He cannot 'sort himself out', sociopaths are disordered, anti social personality disorder cannot be cured.
The only advice I will give you is to run. I've dealt with a sociopath. There will be other affairs, this new photography venture will be another way to scam people and get his ego fix. There are probably debts and petty crimes you know nothing about.
There are lots of support groups and forums online if you look around. The people there will help you. Start with psycopathfree.com, truelovescam.com and love fraud.
There are secret groups on Facebook which obviously I won't give the names of here but look for pages/groups regarding narcissistic abuse awareness, narc survivors. Lots will come up.
Feel free to pm me op

Gosh this doesn't sound healthy for you at all

He's a sociopath??? Some of the symptoms include superficial charm and manipulation - sounds like he's charms and manipulated both you, and his lover, and who knows who else. Such a random diagnosis?? This diagnosis is normally only given in a forensic/criminal context. Does he have a criminal history? Why was he diagnosed??

You married and had children with a sociopath.

I bow out

He is diagnosed as a "sociopath"?!

I know someone who is a diagnosed sociopath. He is the most dangerous person I've ever met, and I've met some shitters in my time. Get your children away. Sociopaths do not change. They do not mold themselves to the situation and relationship; they systematically take apart people, love and relationships for their own amusement and gain.

If this began 8 years ago then you knew before you had your DC that he was a twat. I am astonished that anyone would continue in a relationship and then progress to having children in such a situation.

Also, if he was a "great Dad" he wouldn't be fucking other women and emotionally manipulating you. Great Dads set a great example to their DC.

he's a great father but I'm just sick of his childish sulks and mood swings (he can hold a grudge and give the silent treatment for days and days on end - which is where we are now).

treating the mother of your children like this is not being a great father op.

it's not right. good fathers don't sulk. good men don't sulk. find out more and prepare yourself to leave but don't tell him - whatever behaviour he currently displays are very likely to increase significantly once he realises you truly have had enough.

A sociopath and a great father?

How did he get the diagnosis? Why didn't you leave when you found out he has a dangerous and genuine personality disorder?

Oh dear

Apart from anything else, I don't understand why you paid and promoted another photographer, knowing your DH is trying to establish himself in this line. I wouldn't be able to tolerate a sociopath and his dodgy dealings either, but if this is turning into one of those relationships where both parties are having a Cold War and constantly finding ways to undermine each other, you've got to stop it.

Good luck though, OP

His diagnosis followed sessions with a psychiatrist apparently. I know he had been to anger management classes but not taken them seriously so I guess that's when he was sent to a psychiatrist, I don't know for sure. As far as I'm aware it wasn't following a criminal conviction. I read up on sociopaths when I found out and he did fit the bill but none of it pointed to being dangerous for me, in fact I read that a sociopath will actually strongly protect those in their life that they truly love and that's the feeling he always gave.
So I actually only have his word for the diagnosis (which he seems to be a bit proud of - another thing I read about)
I've just grown tired of life always being on his terms or he gets sulky. Or I just don't include him anymore as it's easier and less stressful that way. I genuinely don't believe he's ever had a physical affair - I've always had full control of our finances (we have a joint account and no individual accounts), he doesn't drive so has to rely on the bus and is rarely out of the house - no hobbies or anything that would give him an excuse to be doing anything else. So, unless someone is coming over to our house for an hour on a monday when I'm at my hobby then anything he's been doing is just online. That's why I wasn't sure in my head if what I had found would generally be described as cheating as it was emails and possibly instant messaging

Rockcake
She was offering a free photo shoot in return for helping her build her portfolio which is the only reason I agreed to do it. I had no idea how good or bad she was and I actually agreed to it before DH really got started (which was only in about february). My thoughtlessness was in sharing the pictures on facebook afterwards, that's when he got pissed off and I admit that was a stupid thing to do

Telling you (proudly) that he's a sociopath gives him a great excuse for bad behaviour.

Assuming you have no formal paperwork confirming a diagnosis, he could have any number of personality disorders (not necessarily sociopathy), you only have his word. The fact that he is proud of the diagnosis reflects how unhinged he probably is. Speaking from experience of someone with a beautiful combination of bipolar and borderline personality disorder (sarcasm) and another with narcissistic personality disorder, I would be questioning whether the relationship was doing anything for me and if it wasn't, probably leave.

People with malignant personality disorders do not make great bedfellows in my experience.

So you're ok with him being a sociopath and royally fucking up your children forever ... but not having sex with someone else?

Your ultimatum of sort himself out or leave is not going to work if he has a personality disorder. You cannot say he is a sociopath and then expect him to behave or react in a reasoned way. (reasoned as in the expected norms eg, change his behaviour or compromise)

You say he is diagnosed as a sociopath, how and when did this happen, was it an actual diagnosis or something suggested or implied or some misinformed opinion? It is surprising how these words and labels can be used with no real foundation.

I agree with thistle Sociopath is not usually a diagnosis, it is the personality disorder that is the diagnosis, for someone with sociopathic tendencies it is likely to be antisocial personality disorder. (b cluster) and I agree that PDO's can not be cured or treated in the same way that sometimes depression or anxiety can.

What support, information or knowledge have either of you been offered into his condition and or diagnosis and how to live with it or not live with it and move on?

And not all people with PDO's are dangerous.

Thank you *quietheart that actually sounds spot on - I think it was more of the opinion of his psychiatrist than a formal diagnosis and he was never (that I know of) sent for any futher treatment so it was probably just her saying "you have sociopathic tendancies" or something like that. He's never done anything about it as he doesn't see that it's a problem. He can be very difficult but also very fun it's just that the two seem to be at extremes and so this may just be that he's normal and also a bit of a twat at times - I only have his word on his previous "diagnosis".

Thankyou to everyone confirming my original question. In all my relationships I have accepted the bad and vowed that as long as good outweighs the bad then I am happy to work at it. I left my last husband because the balance changed.

What exactly have you read up about sociopaths because from what you're describing it was the Walt Disney guide to bad guys.
He won't have been sent for treatment because it's pretty much universally excepted that there is no cure or treatment. It's not a mental illness it's a disorder.
Sociopaths cannot really love anyone. They only use people.
I really think you need to do more research.
You say he has no hobbies or time out of the house but then say he is starting up with photograthy so when is he doing that?

OP
Re your original question, I also meant to say I knew someone many years ago who had to ask the same question several times throughout her 30+ year marriage. Her husband had secret communication and conversations with other women although she's certain none of these flirtatiions ever turned physical. V long story short, he was a very troubled soul who led her a merry dance and all but ruined her life.

Hopefully your DH is not this bad, but please be aware, that's all