To have gently told her she was wrong

[Calyrical]

Awkward one: about politics (sorry) but only indirectly.

An inexperienced teacher in my department announced brightly at lunch she had told some year 8s the party she was voting for and that's the one 'they should also vote for.' She listed the reasons she had given them.

I interjected and quite nicely but also firmly told her that she was wrong to have done so. I said it was unlikely anyone would complain but if they did her actions would be difficult to justify as we are in an influential position.

However I got quite a lot of grumbling and muttered 'well it's true!' remarks from other departmental members.

I'm 99% sure I was NOT BU.

But I will leave it to MN to decide.

YANBU as a teacher I do not reveal my political opinions to staff or students.

YANBU. Teachers are not meant to suggest or influence pupil voting behaviour.

During indyref and brexit my dn's school was forbidden to discuss it at all. Due to being the eldest in his class he was eligible to vote in both but neither pupil or teacher were allows to discuss it so they couldn't be accused of influencing. I guess the fact they were of voting age was relevant though!

You've already spoken to her. I would leave it now.
Children will hear all sorts of opinions and by year 8 they don't always agree with what the teachers say.

Nobody should tell students what to do when it comes to politics or religion. The closest I came was when a student said that her Dad had told her that all Muslims are terrorists. I was happy to swiftly say that wasn't the case and move on - because that's an actual fact, not an opinion.

Most schools I've worked in have given us common sense and professional judgement on the grounds that it's good for kids to see people care about politics and are informed rather than just parrot back pre-scripted lines.

Common sense means not telling kids who they should vote for, having an open discussion about all views, not being rude about the Candidates, not giving your view unless you're asked.

But then in those schools I've worked in we've had politically aware teenagers who discuss what a going on in the world regularly so any "can't chat politics or show any view" just takes the flow of conversation away. Quite often I'm just facilitating talk between students.

The idea that teenagers will hear a personal view expressed by a teacher and decide it's the only correct view does teenagers a disservice.

I would not be best pleased if my children's teacher told them who they should vote for. Would definitely complain to the HT though. Wouldn't even say anything to the teacher about it cos I doubt she thinks she'd done anything wrong.

Billben
I wouldn't be impressed if any of my colleagues told children who to vote for.

I'm still OK with colleagues giving their views respectfully if asked.

Before calling the head I would be very clear that the child is saying "my teacher told me to vote for..." because in the last 2 months one of my colleagues have had complaints made about them by parents because children have claimed they've said things, the colleague has been bollocked for it because it was child's word against theirs and then the child has admitted that the teacher didn't say anything of the sort. So before complaining I would be asking my child "did the teacher say they are voting for a party because... or did they say you should only vote for this party because" They are 2 very different set ups.

I was asked by students about school funding because the local MP was claiming to protect school funding but their parents went online and saw the scale of the predicted cuts on our school. The students asked for information and my thoughts. I'd be annoyed if I got a report in from another parent saying "my child claims they hate a certain party because you were discussing funding cuts" (especially when it was a student led discussion about an election issue that directly affects them & it is true what their parents said about the election material they saw).

If the teacher has categorically said "you should only vote for this party/ you should never vote for this party" then absolutely mention it to the head.

I'm horrified that some teachers have posted on this forum admitting they do not hide their biases from the children the teach. It's appalling behaviour

I'd urge Schro and Persian cat lady to complain about their teachers lack of professionalism.

northern
Everyone has views. For staff to pretend otherwise just insults the intelligence of the teenagers we work with.

It is perfectly possible to be open about some of our personal views if asked and appropriate (professional judgement and all that) and still discuss the merits of all sides without bad mouthing any side.

E.g. I didn't vote conservative. I didn't state who I was going to vote for but political discussions come up quite a lot in my school so it's not unheard of to discuss policies and news events.

A class (who didnt know how i voted) were asking what I thought about the election result. I told them it was an interesting result because a hung parliament isn't ideal for any side. They were talking about whether Theresa May was right to call an election and asked my thoughts. I said I thought it was the wrong call because she had 4 years of guaranteed office and she gambled it and lost her majority.

There's nothing unprofessional about saying that.

An older class have asked my views of Jeremy Corbyn. I said personally I like some of his policies but I wouldn't say I'm his biggest fan. We had an interesting discussion about his plan for free tuition (Labour voter here but I don't agree with free uni fees).

Treating teenagers like young adults and discussing things in an open and fair way is not the same as telling students who they should vote for. The idea that anyone would consider any of my conversations with students unprofessional is frankly laughable.

I'd rather show teenagers that it is possible for them to express their views and be listened to and model adults discussing politics sensibly and politely than pretend we shouldn't discuss it/all they see of politics is adults arguing and being rude.

Totally agree Maisy. That's pretty much exactly the approach I always take.

Glad it's not just me dumbledore.

Sensible, open, tolerant discussion that doesn't patronise teenagers or insult their intelligence is best.
And if they ask my view and they disagree they tell me! And we agree to respectfully disagree because there's merits on both sides.

Plus, I often feel these sorts of discussions are even more important now gone how much rubbish and fake news and propaganda gets shared on social media from all sides.

Maisy

As a parent this is much what I do with both my teens

I want them to grow up as free thinking young people,they are well aware that we are central voters and have as yet always voted for the party that then takes power (yes I am that mythical swing voter)

I am more than happy for free discussion with teachers, we had a long discussion about politics with our DD 14 last night and about her freedom to vote as she feels

My concern is that in a highly rated school, children parroting theirs parents views feel emboldened to bully because a teacher has affirmed their view point and criticised any other

The right thing to do is to tell/show them the policies of each party and tell the kids to make their own minds up.

Schroedingerscatagain
I would agree. It's the criticism of other views thay would get my back up.

Manners don't cost anything.

I had to close a discussion this week because one student supported Theresa May and a group of about 4 others were were furious with them. Discussion was stopped because they weren't discussing politely.

Squished, that isn't the only right way to teach controversial issues and politics. The following approaches are all suggested as valid. (This is taken from advice from Oxfam)

Committed – teacher is free to propagate own views. Care needs to be taken with this role, however, as this can lead to a biased discussion.
● Objective or Academic – teacher transmits an explanation of all possible viewpoints without stating own position.
● Devil’s Advocate – teacher adopts provocative and oppositional stances irrespective of own viewpoint. This enables the teacher to ensure that all views are covered and challenged if a consensus view emerges early on. It also helps to challenge young people’s existing beliefs.
● Advocate – teacher presents all available viewpoints then concludes by stating own position with reasons. The teacher can then make the point that it is important for pupils to evaluate all viewpoints before forming their own opinions.
● Impartial Chairperson – teacher ensures that all viewpoints are represented, through pupil statements or published sources. Teacher facilitates but refrains from stating own position.
● Declared Interest – teacher declares own viewpoint so that pupils can judge later bias, then presents all available positions as objectively as possible.

I was given training in this at IOE by a specialist in teaching history and politics in Northern Ireland and was told to always take the last approach. It's what I've always done and will carry on doing.

Marisy, the responses on this thread and other forums show teachers do not always leave it at a polite discussion.

There is ample evidence of teachers trying to influence their students. You may act professionally but a great many of your colleagues do n't.

Why are you talking about politics in any event ? You re paid to teach a subject not chit chat

WellThisIsShit Won't you still be entitled to help and free school meals? Have you looked into it? Xx

Oh no I pressed the wrong thread sorry! 🙈

Why are you talking about politics in any event ? You re paid to teach a subject not chit chat
Because we do duty and talk to students, not just stand their like law enforcement.
Because we have tutor time each morning and in that we discuss world events, literature, films, read as well as do behaviour and pastoral issues.
Because lots of subjects are linked to world events e.g. history, geography, literature, politics, PSHE, RE etc.
Because we have debating clubs, a student council, politics courses, extra curricular law clubs etc.

As you see on all the threads "why don't teachers discuss law, politics, university, mental health, crime system etc" teachers do actually teach more than just their own subject as part of helping the whole development of children.

I have already said that if teachers have told students who to vote for or been rude about other views then that is totally not ok.
The solution to that issue however is not to police silence or robotic scripts.

I'm with dumbledore, declared interest if asked and present all views objectively and politely.