To have gently told her she was wrong

[Calyrical]

Awkward one: about politics (sorry) but only indirectly.

An inexperienced teacher in my department announced brightly at lunch she had told some year 8s the party she was voting for and that's the one 'they should also vote for.' She listed the reasons she had given them.

I interjected and quite nicely but also firmly told her that she was wrong to have done so. I said it was unlikely anyone would complain but if they did her actions would be difficult to justify as we are in an influential position.

However I got quite a lot of grumbling and muttered 'well it's true!' remarks from other departmental members.

I'm 99% sure I was NOT BU.

But I will leave it to MN to decide.

My dd's teacher asked them to share who their parents were voting for in circle time today

COMPLAIN. That's East bloody German. Even if the children know they should not be encouraged to disclose it. Quite the contrary.

If the teacher wants to tell the class whom she voted for and why thats fine

It is the WHY bit where it becomes an issue really though. Because then it is not longer impartial information. Not unless you can then give an equally balanced view of the other parties out there.

It's not an abuse. It is actually preferable for teachers to disclose their position. They are less likely to influence students through unconscious bias that way. Teachers should not be pretending they are impartial. Especially when teaching politics or recent history it's really important to be open about the fact that the teachers viewpoint is just that and not unquestionable fact.

Unconscious bias is evident through the curriculum; I don't think it's down to individual teachers although it can be in the delivery.

Not that they can even vote, so not sure what she was aiming for
I voted twice while I was at school.

Andrew - the children involved were year 8, so 12-13 year olds. So not eligible to vote for a few more years.

Year 8s can't vote any by the time they can they probably won't remember what their teacher told them however many years ago!

Sorry Hulababy - All this Year 8 stuff is after my time. My DS's school did not use it either.

But it's wrong in principle whatever their age.

She was wrong. Yes to encouraging them to form own views and being able to critically debate but no to saying this is how you yourself is voting and saying why they should to. I was talking to my 5 year old about politics today and we will always encourage both my children as they grow up to form own views indipendent of ours and to be able to look at all points of view. Its good to encourage children to take an interest so when its their turn to vote they dont just vote same way as they were told was right by people around them. I know a few people who vote for certain parties just because their parents did and dont look at what each party stands for.

I know a few people who vote for certain parties just because their parents did and dont look at what each party stands for.

I know many people like this. Grown adults too. And many too who only look at the often biased media headlines for at least the two main parties (well, you see that on Mn a lot as it is) and vote for them on that basis. Wonder how many people ever actually look a bit further - cant be many on the whole.

It doesn't matter if they remember or not, if it influences them or not.

If every teacher used the classroom as a tool to promote their own personal views, it would cause confusion and division.

I agree with you that promoting her own views is wrong but I think that there's a difference between explaining who you voted for and why and telling students who they should vote for. I would do the first but not the second. Trying to pretend I'm politically neutral would feel unnatural and dishonest. I've taught history and politics and I'm always having to flag up to the students that I'm not neutral on all sorts of things from Henry VIII to the election. I have biases and they should be aware of that. I'm not an objective dispenser of facts.

I agree with you. She shouldn't have done it. I don't think I'd be as bothered if she'd just said the bit about who she voted for but she shouldn't be putting her opinion on the kids, no matter what age. My kids have done government and politics AS and A level and out of their four teachers not one has said which political party they support. It's pretty clear but they won't be drawn on it and I think that's a good decision.

I think you did the right thing. If my child had come back and told me I would say something and would feel the need to redress the balance by telling them this party stands for this, this one for this etc, and it's up to you when you're an adult to learn about them and decide for yourself.

Yes YABU to have 'gently' told her she was wrong. Just say she's not allowed to do that. She sounds like a twit (no wonder the Labour Party has gone to the dogs), and politically naïve, but you sound condescending especially yammering about your pearl clutching horror on here.

Also, your claim that Unconscious bias is evident through the curriculum; I don't think it's down to individual teachers although it can be in the delivery makes you sound only functionally literate. There is conscious bias in the curriculum. Individual teachers reinforce this conscious bias either consciously or unconsciously, or resist it.

Personally, I describe each partisan platform in a way that makes it seem attractive. I also explain why state school teachers are more likely to vote Labour, because it's in their interests, and why private school teachers and parents are more likely to support neoliberal platforms. And other groups. Therefore it creates space for students to reflect on their own values and choices, and validates their parents'. I always qualify and justify my perspectives and interpretations when I teach.

YY Dumbledore.

*functionally illiterate

I teach Politics to sixth formers and always refrain from telling them how I vote. Most of them work it out as it's hard to consistently hide opinions when you discuss politics ALL the time. And I totally failed to hide my feelings on Brexit! (Teaching a double lesson the morning after... it was pretty clear)
But YANBU but if she is inexperienced a quiet word is fine

I'd also add, kids are usually desperate to know. I've been asked numerous times.
So I do think it's fine to say how you vote if you choose to, but you shouldn't. Say "that's how you should vote" - though I doubt it would really influence them!

My two cents:
It would be one thing if it were a bunch of 17/18 year olds who were either eligible to vote now or would be eligible at the next election; if the information was presented in a factual, unbiased way, which makes it educational and un-partisan; and if there was no follow up of "I vote this way, you should to".

But it didn't happen that way. It was to a bunch of primary aged children (in this country, year 8 is twelve and thirteen year olds, and it's the last year of primary school), and I know first hand how those children often hear what they want to hear and can and do present a very skewed and less than factual picture of "what happened at school today" to their parents. And if you get the parents offside, being a teacher is very hard indeed.

As a teacher, no, I don't think you CAN be seen to have very firm opinions on matters such as politics. In my classroom I have a very strong opinion about bullying (I'm anti), and a very strong opinion about respect (firmly pro). I'm happy for the kids to know about. That's Ms. inthesound during school hours. Faith outside of school hours can be as opinionated and political as I want, can go protest and burn various items of clothing and picket and so on and so forth... because that's my time as an adult person. When I'm at school, I'm a teacher first, and learning is priority one, and politics have to take a back seat.

I am actually a very politically aware person. I have hugely strong opinions about social justice matters. In fact, there are certain policies at my school I'm incredibly uncomfortable with (one in particular, not because it's that awful, it's just archaic and against my feminist sensibilities lol) but none of that matters when I am Ms. inthesound.

So yes. If it had been teenagers, with which you can have actual reasoned and nuanced conversation, I wouldn't be AS concerned. But with primary school kids, who so often seen in black and white, don't understand nuance, and report things in such a skewed manner, I'd be horrified to speak to them about my personal politics. I don't think you were wrong to say something. I agree with a PP I probably would have caught her in the hall later and had a quiet word, rather than do it in front of everyone, but I still would have said something. The kids are too young to understand what she was trying to do.

YANBU. If students ask me I will tell them who I'm voting for, but I always make it clear that the important thing is to vote, and would never say anything negative about other parties.

Trifle, that's correct. We of course have the right to vote for who we wish. But you're not allowed to promote a particular party - even in my own time I'm not allowed to canvass for one party or another.

And quite a few people have been disciplined for putting stuff on social media even if they don't directly say they're a civil servant.

Since it's so ingrained in us, I do find the other professions shouting about their views rather odd an unprofessional.

I'd
Be livid as a parent if my child was told What to do by a teacher on a matter they have no business in poking their nose into - bit like religion - teach the policies/theory etc but no indoctrination (which is what it is at that age!)

Anneelliott teachers can stand for political parties at election so I don't see how they can't canvass. That would be a very dodgy policy, not the case where I live.

My six year old came home very very firmly telling me who to vote for as her teacher had told her that the conservatives were taking all the money away from the schools and that ukip were greedy and labour would give the schools all the money. I don't think that was appropriate in the slightest.

I would be furious about this. Both my DCs schools did a lot of talking around the election and mock voting. In my older daughter's case (yr 7) it involved students researching the individual political parties manifestos, one person pretending to be the candidate, children getting involved in their own debates, and voting. That is how it should be, a child led exercise where they are encouraged to think about the individual issues and DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. DD voted Green in her school election, as it happens; she knows we voted Tory in this election. She understands our reasons and I am so glad and proud she felt able to make a different one and to talk to us about it.

It's one thing to ask children with the right to vote how they are going to vote but to, in a gossipy way, ask about their parents' habits. That is really disgusting.

It's A SCHOOL where the idea is we're helping children to learn to THINK FOR THEMSELVES. I would be steaming.

As a teacher of adults, I would answer truthfully if asked about political allegiance, and if any of my students or colleagues follow me on social media (as they are perfectly entitled to do). then they shouldn't find it very difficult to work out where I stand. But though my students are grown-up and (I hope) less easily influenced, I would find it completely unacceptable to be doing any personal canvassing in my employer's time in a space set up by my employer and where I held a position of authority.