To not vote tomorrow ?

[notgivingin789]

I don't know who to vote for .

I usually vote for labour but there's some polices I don't agree with and the conservatives are no better. Between the two, I wouldn't vote for either of them.

Am I alone in this ?

I'm partially worried (regarding the Universities ) that a degree will become a standard thing to have (like having a GCSE) and they would be looking for people who have studied past postgraduate level..PHD.

My Dad once told me 'If you don't vote you can't complain about the government'.

Labour's manifesto is fully costed and they have provided the maths behind all of their policies.

Which is also disagreed with and has big holes.

OP please do vote even if you spoil your paper.

Why shouldn't university places be funded? It's in the nation's interest to have an educated working population. University places should be available to those with the ability to learn and not just for those with the ability to pay!

I must warn you op, I'm currently devising a way to get the electorate to wear a shock bracelet that goes off every half an hour on polling day until you've entered a polling booth....

Aside from that, please vote. There must be one party you even slightly prefer over the other.

It sounds melodramatic but people died to give you a voice.

There must be things that are important to you. Will you be using the NHS, do you have children that will going to school, do you pay council tax etc.

There will be one party that is more in line with your views, even if it's not all of them.

All of those things, well pretty much everything, is affected by who gets in to power for this five years.

It's a ridiculous system but it's all we have.

and I'll give you a cookie if you vote

For me, the party I'm voting for won't win in my area but I'm voting for them anyway as they resonate with me on specific issues that I like and I want that vote for that approach to be registered.

I see your point about fees, but I'm old and university degrees were free for me. I massively valued that opportunity and never took it for granted that someone from a working class background could study and not be swamped by debt. If it hadn't been free, I wouldn't have been able to study - as it was I had three part time roles at the same time during some times of my studies. As it is, I have a PhD and have contributed significantly to tax in my working life so far. But there are positives and negatives on both sides of that debate (as with all debates).

I don't think someone could agree with every aspect of a parties manifesto. I think 80% agreement is fine but you have to go with your heart / head / gut feeling.

Many people in many countries would not understand that stance as they have never been allowed to vote.

I think it is everyone's duty to vote.

^ THIS
If you don't use your democracy sooner or later someone will take it away from you. Watch the film Suffragette if you're in any doubt or the pictures of Africans queuing round the block in the searing sun.

If you don't know who to vote for, forget the national picture and look at your own constituency issues. Remember your choice is not between May, Corbyn and other leaders but for who you wish to represent you in parliament.

Do vote- as others have said if you don't you cannot moan about anything political fir the next 5 years.

Some elections could have been won by the people who didn't bother voting. The power you have is actually that great.

Voting for a party who can win can feel like a pointless act. It isn't. Parties, even if they've won, examine election results. If their majority is cut, they ask why.

So you can influence and change policy without voting for someone who wins.

Look at UKIP. Virtually no MPs, but some influence.

Please vote. Because you can. And that's so precious.

YABU. Please vote or you might as well vote Conservative. Please vote tactically at the least.

I think any of the other parties listen better to constituents once in power so have more potential to be fine tuned.

Conservatives on the other hand want a free rein to do whatever they like once in power, regardless of what anyone thinks.

I'm partially worried (regarding the Universities ) that a degree will become a standard thing to have (like having a GCSE) and they would be looking for people who have studied past postgraduate level..PHD.

That's a valid concern, but actually, in the days when there were no tuition fees, far fewer people went to university.

If we need to limit the number of people doing degrees, I'd rather do that by making them more academically rigorous. I think it would be fairer to narrow the field by selecting the brightest and best from all socio-economic backgrounds, rather than putting off those students from low and middle income backgrounds who might feel that it's too much of a risk to take on that much debt.

Good to hear it op. I always think that it is wrong to not vote because of the battle taken to win our right to vote.

Everyone should vote. If you are unsure about national policies on offer also consider which candidate will best serve the needs of the local community as an MP.

Please vote.

If you don't vote, then politicians don't pay attention to you. They think you are uninterested.

If you don't think anyone represents you, or you just can't make up your mind, then go and spoil your paper. Spoilt papers are counted, and I can't think of a stronger message than people who are interested enough to go to the polling station but who don't choose any one over another, it tells them that you think none of them are good enough.

Please go. Spoil your paper.

The state would pay the tuition fees so the universities would not be worse off

Except the state pays a fixed amount regardless of university or course. In Scotland that means a strict cap on the number of Scottish students and the end of some courses. Nowhere in Scotland now trains theatre nurses for example.

There would be more manual workers if they were paid a living wage!

Women battled for a long time to win the vote. We owe it to them to exercise the choices available to us at election time. We also owe it to our children, to try and choose politicians who will do their best to create a decent future.

"Am I alone in this ?" You are not alone but I think you would be wrong to waste your vote.

notgivingin "This may sound..upright.. but I don't agree with the University fees being free of charge. How would the courses fund themselves ? Would degrees become less valued ? ( not sure if that's the right term to use). Would student grants/ loans be diminished ? It just doesn't seem realistic and properly thought about."

Is it costed in the Labour manifesto? They say it is.

How would the degrees be of less value if the students got to go to university for free. that is how it was for decades before they started charging people.

The principle is that by giving good quality education, up to degree level, for free, to all, that it will make our country a better place, that those students will go out and do great things with their education. Do you know Britain used to lead the world in many things. We do not now!

We still lead the world (in my opinion) in fairness and human rights. Look what the Tories want to do, meddle with even that.

Brokenbiscuit says i well.

Neverknowing "I was told by a teacher at school that fees were brought in so degrees were more valued because only the people who really wanted to go to uni would go, ATM way too many people do degrees and we don't have enough manual workers (and then complain when people come here to do those jobs)."

This sounds like a lot of home spun hooey. Do you thin that the number of people who really want to go and will get and make the most out of the experience of university completely correlates to the number of people who can afford it?!

What about all those very intelligent brilliant people who cannot afford it. Maybe they just do not want it enough!

"A degree doesn't mean a lot anymore as everyone does them."

I think this is a massive exaggeration. I was the first person in my family (to my knowledge) to do a degree.

But I agree totally with "I'm voting labour though, wouldn't you be annoyed if you don't vote and we lose the NHS and other services? I think we need labour right now"

Please please please do vote. Where I live it's a 'pointless vote' because Labour always win here regardless but I still ALWAYS vote. I don't agree with spoiling papers because that really is the same as not voting at all. Even if your choice doesn't win the figures are there to show that some support is and it encourages politicians to listen to the voters. Look what's happened since people started voting ukip. Even though they don't really gain the other parties start to address some of their voters issues so it really does make a difference. I don't know anyone who agrees 100% with any party but choose what's best for you. The only real wasted vote is one not made :)

Brokenbiscuit says it well.

I've said elsewhere that I'd rather 50% of the Labour manifesto than any amount of the Conservative party. I don't know if Labour can do it all. I don't care. I want them to try.
Even if you vote for a party other than the big two, it counts. They get airtime next time round based on their vote share - that's why UKIP are in these debates and having party political broadcasts shown. You might save someone's deposit.

My vote will never count as my MP has a massive majority, but I always vote with my heart - because there's nothing worse than to wake up with an election result you don't want and realise that you did nothing to stop it.

Given that the vast majority of graduates will never finish paying off their loans, I'm not convinced that the "graduates will pay more into the system" argument really holds up.

Having unlimited access to degrees and no personal skin in the game just means that people will do degrees when they really aren't the right option. The Tory government has invested heavily in apprenticeships which are now a great alternative to university.

Some degrees have lower earnings for their graduates than if people with the same a levels had just got jobs straight out of school....

but I don't agree with the University fees being free of charge. How would the courses fund themselves ? Would degrees become less valued ?

University education is free in Norway - as in no tuition fees, and a good system of grants and students loans (which only are payable if at some point in your life you earn more than a certain amount, no interest until then)

Lots of people have university education, but lots of people go on to become electricians, carpenters, hairdressers, etc too.

I think that because the education is free, it is LESS rather than more coveted, not necessarily worse quality. It is OK to start a degree, realize it is not for you and change your course or move on to something less academic. Everybody knows a university education is obtainable if you WANT it, so it is not such a big thing.

5 years to become a primary or secondary school teacher is not a bad thing.... You dont embark on a 5 years BA/MA bundle if you dont have passion, just because you dont pay tuition fees...

So, if you like the lib dems, vote lib dem. This is why minority parties remain minority!!! Besides, by voting lib dem, you are exercising your right to say that you don't like what either labour or the tories have to offer in a way that will be counted.