to think SIL needs to get a grip?

[JayoftheRed]

Long time lurker, but I rarely post.

My sister in law (husband's sister) is driving me mad. She's 33, lives alone, no partner/kids (and no likelyhood of either, sadly), seems to have little in the way of friends/hobbies etc.

I have two boys, 4 and 1.

My husband takes the boys to see his family every other weekend, and they usually see them at least once in the week as well.

My SIL and MIL are still connected by the umbilical cord, it seems sometimes, and neither can seem to get their heads around the idea that they can do things separately. I have learned to live with this, and I limit my own contact with them as they drive me mad, but I have no issues with my husband seeing them and taking the kids.

Anyway, SIL came round last night for dinner to see the boys and when she was getting ready to leave, she asked when we would see her next. We're on holiday next week so my husband told her that he would be dropping the boys off to his parents a week on Saturday (17th) for a few hours while we catch up on washing, shopping etc after getting back from holiday.

SIL went into what I can only describe as some kind of panic attack. I mean no disrespect of any mental health problems - I suffer from mild depression and anxiety myself, so I know how it feels. But this just seems like a major over reaction, but maybe I'm being unfair.

SIL basically said that she had an opticians appointment on the Saturday morning, and she didn't know if she would be able to rearrange it to go to her parents instead, and also their (parents') car is too small for both parents and both boys in their car seats, she won't be able to fit in the back with them (this is true, it's a tiny car), so she won't be able to come with them to take them back to our house (half an hour drive). She was properly panicked, all trembly and stuff, almost in tears.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that she needs to get a bit of a grip on something like this? The boys will be there from late morning until about 4pm, she will still have plenty of time to see them, assuming her appointment falls within that time - which I don't think it does, I think it's around 9am. And OK, she won't be able to travel for half an hour across town with them, but surely that's just a shrug your shoulders and say goodbye at the house situation?

My PIL have form for asking us to rearrange our plans to fit in with SIL's plans - we've had to go round in the afternoon instead of the morning because she had something on, or vice versa, or even go round on Sunday instead of Saturday, or whatever. If it doesn't make much difference to us, I/we generally just do it, to keep the peace, but if it doesn't work for us, we say no (I say no, I'm always the bad guy - yes, I know, DH problem, but it's not really) and then we get "oh, SIL had to cancel xyz to see the boys, it's such a shame" - no she didn't have to cancel, she could have done xyz and seen them a few days later - it's not a law she has to see them on a Saturday!

She's also really bad at making any effort herself to see them - at the moment she comes round once a fortnight for dinner and put them to bed, but she comes from work with my husband (they work in the centre of town, so easy to meet and walk up) and then my husband runs her home. This is fine - when it works for us. But sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I need the car. If that happens, she either doesn't come, but then wants to come another night, which is rarely suitable as we are quite busy, or she just stays all evening until I'm home. She once caught the bus, and got into such a state over it that it really wasn't worth the hassle in insisting. I have a little bit more sympathy with this, as I get panicky about stuff I'm not used to - catching a bus would scare me a bit as I hardly ever do it BUT I would check all details in advance and make sure I knew exactly where I needed to be and when, so that it didn't impact on anything.

I'm not really looking for any advice, just wanting to know if feeling highly irritated that she got so stressed out about such a non-problem is unreasonable. It feels good to get it all off my chest too!

I can completely see why you would it would be irritating and by all means get it out there! But you know she is mentally ill, there is not other explaination for that reaction and so you have to suck it up I'm afraid. After all, you are woman enough to make sure that you are not pandering to it yourself, you are running your home your way and therefore you can live with it

Bit annoying I suppose but nothing to get worked up about.

I think it's kind of sweet she's so desperate to see them and actually puts them to bed once a fortnight.

I would find this really stifling and restrictive so I feel for you OP. I don't know what you can do about it though.

OK, that's fine. I wondered if I was being a bit harsh, she does have mental health problems (but won't do anything about them, whole other thread!).

She loves the boys, and they love her, but I find it hard that I seem to have to provide her, and PIL, with their "fix" every week - they literally say that they can't cope if they don't see them for a week, they've asked us to come back early from holiday (we didn't) and if I take any time off work, they still expect to have the boys on "their" day. When I was on maternity leave, they still demanded my eldest every Wednesday, which they had done while I was working. I let it go because it was actually quite helpful to have that day with the baby, but it was never offered as a helpful thing for me - it was their needs, they wanted him, they couldn't cope. If I had said the best way they could help would be to not see the boys for, say, a month, they simply wouldn't.

Ah well. I shall suck it up! It doesn't affect me really and truly, I just found her reaction a bit pathetic for a grown woman.

OP, I could have written that post myself. It is IMPOSSIBLE to see PIL without SIL being involved too. We recently invited PIL out for dinner, as a thank you for having us visit them, and they said they couldn't come unless we invited SIL too, as she'd be upset at missing out on a family gathering.

YANBU, and have my every sympathy 🌺

I feel for you Jay, I really do! My PIL are the same with the DCs, MIL has form for saying "no one loves those children more than i do!" complete with tears and histronics

Thankfully now the eldest is a teen the requests are dying off, seems they were only cute when they didn't have opinions of their own.

Yeah, clear mh (or other) issues. Very annoying from your POV op, but all you can do is more of the same that you've been doing so far - boundaries, boundaries, boundaries and 'no, that doesn't work for us.'

Unfortunately I do think you need to speak to show about this and you being the bad guy all the time. You can't be a human buffer for her nonsense, a) it's not fair especially as she's his sister and it's his family in general and b) you'll drive yourself crazy or end up with an ulcer. Will he speak to your parents to get them onside if you make the problem clear?

whateveryousay Yes, we have that. This is why she got upset about not being able to drive home with them. I just find it suffocating. We see my parents without my brother, and my brother and his family without my parents. But then I have a great relationship with my brother, he's my best mate. My husband barely has any relationship with his sister - mainly because she always comes with MIL!

Navy you're right, it is a little unkind. I just find it hard to understand I guess. Unfair of me, I should always try to think of it from her point of view. It's nice that she loves my boys so much - although there's a tiny bit of me that worries about them seeing this kind of behaviour - I suffer from anxiety but I never let them see it, they don't need to know that I panic at the thought of doing something I don't know, it will only encourage them to do so as well.

I will try to remember to see things from her point of view in future, within reason. I'm not rearranging my day for her, but I will try not to judge her in this way.

Just seen your update - 'their' day? that sounds suffocating. And they all come as a united entitled front, eesh.

I really think then that you and dh need to be agreed on the way to handle them then, and I would say they need to be broken of that entitledness when it comes to your time. They sound very demanding, I would worry it will escalate unless you tackle - or do you think it's unlikely?

I don't think you're being unkind.

I also have a SIL who has a whole raft of undiagnosed MH issues, I mean I'm not a doctor but I do have a lot of experience in and around MH and I'm sure she has OCD and severe anxiety.

It's a different situation to yours but things like not letting us in her house when our ds was a toddler in case her son had left some small toys out (choking risk), almost not coming to our wedding because her son wouldn't cope with the drive between registry office and reception (it was a fifteen minute drive...).

I get very frustrated because she won't DO anything about her stuff, she just expects everyone around her to change what they are doing.

I stopped pandering to her years ago and life has been much easier. I used to go out of my way to make her feel comfortable but you know, I have my own shit to deal with.

YABVU for saying someone with MH symptoms should just "get a grip"

panda The reason I'm the "bad guy" is because MIL doesn't argue with me. We get what we want, sort of. If my husband talks to her, somehow she always talks him round. She doesn't have any time or affection for my husband, he is simply a means to an end - the end being the kids obviously. I have taken myself out of the situation as much as I can, I rarely go round, apart from dropping off and picking up, which is no more than ten minutes a day.

As you've said, she's obviously unwell. In that respect I think you are being very unreasonable to expect her to just 'get a grip', because she obviously physically can't and probably would love to if she could.

However, you are definitely not being unreasonable in being irritated by it. Speaking from personal experience, this kind of thing is annoying, and often hard to get your head around if you don't suffer from it yourself.

So, it's alright to be irritated by it - but show some empathy and encourage her to get the appropriate help. It's definitely not a good idea for her to be so overly reliant on seeing your children - what if you ever decide to move away etc?

Monkey Maybe, but I have similar problems, and I have learned to get a grip. Forcing my issues onto someone else isn't fair. I do feel she ought to get some help, therapy etc. Whatever works. But she won't, because everyone generally just gives into her to keep her happy, so she's never really needed to, she gets what she wants.

It would be wonderful if it were as easy as 'getting a grip' with mental health problems... And come on OP, you know that really.

It won't do your SIl any good for you to get wound up further though, OP, so I suggest that whenever she asks about arrangements with your DC visiting your parents, you refer her to your husband/ her brother for him to discuss it with her instead.

Definitely MH issues. But I disagree that you need to suck it up. It sounds exhausting and frustrating.

I have a family member a bit like this (not as bad), and actually, it makes me feel stressed and anxious having to constantly worry about plans being attempted to be changed, or an extra person turning up uninvited, or having to shoe-horn visits in on days that really don't suit.

It's not good for my MH to have to pander to her issues, I don't see why hers should take priority every single time.

Bloody hell that sounds exhausting.

My husband sees his dad (Was mum and dad, but she has been gone 13 yrs) every sat afternoon, without fail. I go or not depending if im working which I mostly am. That's it....anymore it would drive me nuts.

You have the patience of a saint

it was their needs, they wanted him, they couldn't cope. If I had said the best way they could help would be to not see the boys for, say, a month, they simply wouldn't.

It's this, for me, that makes it not OK. I cannot imagine putting my own needs first every time, to the detriment of others, like this.

Aye That sounds very similar. I hate having to change days, or times, to suit someone else. Generally, my husband takes the boys round on a Saturday afternoon while I am at the football, (good excuse for me not to have to go too), but sometimes they ask him to take them on a Saturday morning because SIL is busy. Now, that means I lose nearly a whole Saturday, or I miss the football, which is more or less the only thing I do that isn't work, house or child related. If they ask my husband, he will do it because he can't stand confrontation. If they ask me, I say no, unless it will actually work for us. I try to give as much as I can, because they do help us out with childcare (at their request, but still) and I have worked very, very hard to get to a place where we all get on. I struggle with my MIL (suspected narc, but who can tell?) but I know she won't change, so I had to. Part of the reason I'm so low contact with them. But if it doesn't work, then the answer is no. PIL are slowing starting to understand this, but SIL, not so much, but that's mainly because most of the arrangements go through MIL.

her MH issues are impacting on her ability to not cope without seeing your dc
I doubt it is really the "having to see your DC" that is their problem here. It is much more obvious that she and possibly your parents to a lesser extent are reliant on a routine - and it is this reliance on their established routine - whatever it might be - that is causing their problems with you.
Whatever has caused both your parents - and your sister to an even greater extent - to be so unhappy about change is the actual root problem. Your parents are obviously enabling you sister to not address her problems too.

she does have mental health problems (but won't do anything about them, whole other thread!). I suspect this is just another aspect of this same problem.

My own sister had some very hard to deal with MH problems - not hard for her to deal with, as they were based around avoidant behavior - just hugely problematic for everyone else in the family. There were large amounts of blame and codependent behavior involved from other family members too which eventually blew the whole family apart.
I think "getting a grip" may not be anywhere near enough of a solution - and "sucking it up" is just a temporary sticking plaster. Do you think this will go away on its own? - or that your sons are going to be happy to carry on like this as they get older ?

but I have similar problems, and I have learned to get a grip

so everyone can just get over any MH issues by just "getting a grip"?

YABVU

665 I do wonder how the boys will react to these demands when they're, say, 12 and 9 or something. My eldest is already rebelling a little - he likes going to their house, but he frequently gets upset because MIL has already picked out what toys he is going to play with today. We just don't work like that! He can play with whatever he likes at home, as long as he tidies up the last one. I suspect, like another PP, they will lose their attraction when they no longer fit into their boxes.