to think SIL needs to get a grip?

[JayoftheRed]

Long time lurker, but I rarely post.

My sister in law (husband's sister) is driving me mad. She's 33, lives alone, no partner/kids (and no likelyhood of either, sadly), seems to have little in the way of friends/hobbies etc.

I have two boys, 4 and 1.

My husband takes the boys to see his family every other weekend, and they usually see them at least once in the week as well.

My SIL and MIL are still connected by the umbilical cord, it seems sometimes, and neither can seem to get their heads around the idea that they can do things separately. I have learned to live with this, and I limit my own contact with them as they drive me mad, but I have no issues with my husband seeing them and taking the kids.

Anyway, SIL came round last night for dinner to see the boys and when she was getting ready to leave, she asked when we would see her next. We're on holiday next week so my husband told her that he would be dropping the boys off to his parents a week on Saturday (17th) for a few hours while we catch up on washing, shopping etc after getting back from holiday.

SIL went into what I can only describe as some kind of panic attack. I mean no disrespect of any mental health problems - I suffer from mild depression and anxiety myself, so I know how it feels. But this just seems like a major over reaction, but maybe I'm being unfair.

SIL basically said that she had an opticians appointment on the Saturday morning, and she didn't know if she would be able to rearrange it to go to her parents instead, and also their (parents') car is too small for both parents and both boys in their car seats, she won't be able to fit in the back with them (this is true, it's a tiny car), so she won't be able to come with them to take them back to our house (half an hour drive). She was properly panicked, all trembly and stuff, almost in tears.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that she needs to get a bit of a grip on something like this? The boys will be there from late morning until about 4pm, she will still have plenty of time to see them, assuming her appointment falls within that time - which I don't think it does, I think it's around 9am. And OK, she won't be able to travel for half an hour across town with them, but surely that's just a shrug your shoulders and say goodbye at the house situation?

My PIL have form for asking us to rearrange our plans to fit in with SIL's plans - we've had to go round in the afternoon instead of the morning because she had something on, or vice versa, or even go round on Sunday instead of Saturday, or whatever. If it doesn't make much difference to us, I/we generally just do it, to keep the peace, but if it doesn't work for us, we say no (I say no, I'm always the bad guy - yes, I know, DH problem, but it's not really) and then we get "oh, SIL had to cancel xyz to see the boys, it's such a shame" - no she didn't have to cancel, she could have done xyz and seen them a few days later - it's not a law she has to see them on a Saturday!

She's also really bad at making any effort herself to see them - at the moment she comes round once a fortnight for dinner and put them to bed, but she comes from work with my husband (they work in the centre of town, so easy to meet and walk up) and then my husband runs her home. This is fine - when it works for us. But sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I need the car. If that happens, she either doesn't come, but then wants to come another night, which is rarely suitable as we are quite busy, or she just stays all evening until I'm home. She once caught the bus, and got into such a state over it that it really wasn't worth the hassle in insisting. I have a little bit more sympathy with this, as I get panicky about stuff I'm not used to - catching a bus would scare me a bit as I hardly ever do it BUT I would check all details in advance and make sure I knew exactly where I needed to be and when, so that it didn't impact on anything.

I'm not really looking for any advice, just wanting to know if feeling highly irritated that she got so stressed out about such a non-problem is unreasonable. It feels good to get it all off my chest too!

Monkey No, perhaps "get a grip" isn't the right phrase. Get help, do something about it. Don't let YOUR problems impact on other people to this extent. I guess that's what I'm saying. Ask for help, by all means. Talk to me, tell me that you're struggling to cope with both an appointment and seeing them on the same day. I get that, it might be too much. So tell me! Don't just cry and then expect someone else to sort it for you. I don't know, that does sound harsh. It's just... I have to. I had to sort myself out. No one else was going to do it for me. I guess I struggle to see why someone else won't do that. Sorry if I caused offence.

Your dh needs to be able to say no - nicely - to them, and disengage. What will it take for him to get onside and back you up? I'm asking honestly op as you're doing great managing it but you need him to do it too.

Understanding mental health problems when you have no major issues yourself (I realise you said you sometimes get mild anxiety - but you might be referring to the worry that most of us experience from time to time, which may not cross the clinical threshold for 'anxiety') can be very difficult. My SIL has a history of depression and suffers from anxiety. She recently cancelled an afternoon tea at a 5 start hotel - with three hours notice because she "didn't feel up to it". The afternoon tea had been organised by her dh for her 50th birthday and close family invited (I know its sounds like a dull event, but actually its just her type of thing)...it really exasperated me and made me quite cross, I thought she should man up. But deep down I know she feels terrible sometimes due to her anxiety and can't help getting things out of proportion / on top of her

Similarly my teenage dd has anxiety and the most trivial things (from my perspective) seem to throw her off. Again though, I have to remind myself that she can't help it

Oh my god OP, this sounds like my SIL! Except she still lives at home! (nearly 40) She refuses to think about living on her own as it makes her upset, and is hoping that a knight in shining armour will turn up and help her feel ready to leave home (how can anyone explain that this is never going to happen?!)
She does EVERYTHING with MIL, holidays, nights out, etc, so only ever socialises with much older people (who are rather right wing, Daily mail readers, if you know what I mean) so she doesn't even interact like a younger person. It really is very sad. I don't think she realises it's not normal, and not sure PIL do either :( It would be ok if she was happy, but she's not, and she refuses to think about the future. She is very attached to our daughter and brings bags of presents every time we see her, which is another issue.
I'd love to help her, but whenever I've brought it up I feel evil as she gets so upset. And I think it's more the PIL/OH's place to say, but apparently they tried years ago.
I don't know what we can do about them OP, it's so frustrating!

panda That's a tough one. It's hard because, as long as I've got in there first, he does back me up. He just doesn't seem able to actually say no in the first place. He will often side step the situation by saying he needs to check with me, and then I have to do it! I don't mind, it does mean that we are able to keep the boundaries, and to be honest, if it did all go to shit, I wouldn't lose anything - the relationship I have with all three of them is of no importance to me, alone - although as the mother of their grandchildren, it is important that they see us all getting along .

I have to say, that since I started putting my foot down a bit more firmly, the games have lessened. Things have been really good for nearly a year now, which doesn't sound like much, but if you'd seen the mess I was in a couple of years ago, with what they wanted/demanded and the way my husband bowed and scraped to them, despite them treating him like shit, you'd never believe I could talk the way I am now. I am able to have a cup of tea with PIL and chat to them on my own, we laugh, we agree on stuff. But if she tries to parent my children, I come down on her like a tonne of bricks, and it really has improved. Obviously I don't know what she does when I'm not there, but it's really not impacting on my life, so it can't be too bad!

My husband is working on it. He's been having counselling, although that seems to have stopped now, and he has come to terms with the fact that they want him for the boys, and not for himself. I think realising that, however hard it was, made it easier for him to not care about their reactions to me - although I still have to set the boundaries in place!

It worries me how this is all going to go when the kids are a bit older.

There will very soon be birthday parties at the weekend, they may want to go to the football with you, have hobbies etc that means this arrangement will have to stop. I assume that you oldest will be at school from September and thats when their social lives really take off (little buggers usually have a better social life than we do!) and it worries me that they will get emotional blackmail to not go to X party or Y club so they they can see Grandma and Aunty. Its especially concerning because they go to their house without you.

I think a proper chat with your DH about whats acceptable is the way to go and making it clear that if there is ever even on incident of them putting pressure on the boys then they dont go anymore.

You know what, there are tons of posts on here from people complaining about family, awful family often. Trouble makers, drama grabbers, emotional abuse, all negative stuff.
I would say I feel sorry for SIL and that she isnt trying to hurt you or your family. So, being as she is family, I would just take the attitude of ' If it fits in we will do it, if it doesnt we will not' and dont feel guilty if you cant. Thats as far as your responsibility lies. Let them deal with any disappointment however they wish and dont give it a second thought if you cannot accomodate their needs.

You sound sympathetic and are trying to be flexible but still with boundaries. Your in-laws are getting regular contact and chances to build up family relationships. Doesnt sound like you are too put out by their ways.

I am sure it is a bit worrying/irritating. I am not sure what else you can do that isn't on the whole other thread you mentioned.

No really advice but much sympathy, OP. My SIL has MH problems too - we rarely see her. It means she doesn't have to take responsibility for anything, can cancel plans at a moment's notice (like DS's 1st birthday) and doesn't have to think of anyone else but herself (which may well be all she can cope with). She lives an hour away by train (doesn't drive). I've never seen her house or been invited there. On the rare occasions we see her she brings elaborate, expensive gifts to compensate. I'd like a proper relationship with her, but never get the chance.

PIL live round the corner from us. PIL look after our toddler DS once a week or so - we found out SIL was making special trips to see our DS at PIL's house, without telling us. Really odd. She's round the corner but won't come over to see me or DH her brother, or DS in his own home! I suppose it's nice she wants a relationship with DS, but she completely baffles me with her behaviour.

I think you need to start off my breaking the routine. They say they "can't cope" without seeing the boys, but really, what are they actually going to do if they don't see them? They might wail and shout, but that will be about the extent of it. When you've broken the routine, I think you'll find that they cope just fine. As you say, your boys are getting older and very soon they are going to want to spend their free time doing other things than visiting your in-laws every Saturday. Make the break now so that they don't have to do it themselves in a couple of years.

Wow OP this sounds exactly like I wrote it. Except, I'm not at a good place yet. I'm still in the angry, stifled, can't understand why DH doesn't see what I see phase.

MIL has already picked out what toys he is going to play with today.

How the FUCK do you think this is in any way OK? it's not a healthy scenario, not now, not ever.

I sympathise with your SIL, however her issues can not be used as a stick to beat you all with. They are using their own needs as a weapon against you, and you are being manipulated left, right and centre.

You and DH have to take back control of the situation. If you have plans, you have plans. As you saw when on maternity, them having your eldest on Wednesdays was purely for their benefit, not yours and not your DC.

A gift/offer that has conditions is not a gift, it's a burden. it's a form of manipulation.

I think that part of the problem is that you have allowed them to set the schedule and routine in your family. From the outset they stated their expectations of you and you obliged. had you have foreseen the situation of today then, you could have acted then to keep things more fluid so that you are not chained into agreements.

Manipulative People often get what they want by professing to love you/your DC, or are only doing whatever they are forcing upon you because of 'concern for you'. NO! they are only ever doing what they want for their own reasons. They are using the excuses to justify the ends to their means.

What did you actually say to her when she was acting like this? Surely you said there and then that this was an extreme response to something that is not, in any way at all, of any significance.

Please stop this nonsense, don't worry about the fall out, that is their issue to manage.

Thank you everyone. You've given me lots to think about.

I do worry about when the eldest starts school in September. I am NOT allowing every weekend visits. I know that's what they will demand, and I have said no. I don't care if the shit hits the fan over it, I want my little boy at home with me, he will be tired, and stressed (he has ASD) with all the changes. Parties etc at weekends, again, I am happy to be the bad guy and say no. If DH agrees when I'm not there (which to be fair, he rarely does, he just side steps the issue by saying he needs to ask me), then I will simply ring them and say it can't happen because xyz. And I really hope that they want to come to football with me, it's great! I'd be sad if they weren't interested at all.

In the early days, I was scared of them. I come from a much more relaxed, spontaneous, laid back family. We are all friends. We hang out together because we want to, not because we have to. As I said, my brother is my best mate. We go to football, get together and have drinks, meals etc, without our parents. Hell, without our other halves a lot of the time, we practically speak another language and no one can understand us! It took me a while to get used to the fact that my in laws were nothing like this. They are regimented. They cannot make plans on the spot, everything needs to be planned and booked days if not weeks in advance. I think that's partly why the toys are selected in advance, Hissy, because MIL needs to know what toy is where, and what kind of mess will be made, if that doesn't sound too batshit. She's learning that DS1 simply won't fit into her box for him any more, he plays with whatever he wants, whatever she says! I find it odd for her to choose his toys, but ultimately it isn't hurting anyone, he was quite happy when he was younger because he didn't know any better, and now he simply doesn't put up with it.

I accept that I wasn't fair in judging my SIL on her response to our visit next week. I still think it's unfair on us that we have to deal with her problems like this because she won't seek help, but ultimately that is her choice and her right not to, I guess. I will not let it interfere with our lives more than it has to. So we will not be changing the plans - except to say that the boys don't go at all.

And Hissy I didn't say anything, really. I think I just raised my eyebrows, looked at my husband and walked away. I'm glad I didn't say anything actually, I suspect it would only have made things worse.

Thank you again everyone.

Oh, and Little, for you. I hope you can work it out. It's horrible when you don't know how to deal with a situation with people who are so close to you (and I don't mean close in distance, or intimacy, but family-wise). There are expectations on all sides, and it's hard to marry the two up. I do hope you get it all sorted.

At some point love, you are going to have to "make it worse"

This IS nuts!

If your ds has asd, then actually NOT Persisting in rigid routines WILL help him long term.

My dear friend has a dd who is autistic and my friend is works hard to ensure that plans ARE changed so that her dd learns that life is not as rigorously regimented as she would like. It's worked wonders on her tbh, that and the ensuring eye contact is maintained etc.

I don't envy you. Not at all, it sounds very difficult

Actually... if your ds has asd, is that where sil and the in laws are getting their rigidity from? Perhaps they have asd too? It can go down through generations I believe?