To not want my human rights torn up?

[futuristic1]

I thought we weren't going to let them change the way we live?

Unless you are a Tory voter and are no longer identifying as human, of course. Posted by You the Cat

So Cat, would your 'version' of human rights include not allowing people to vote if they wanted to vote differently to you?^
^

Article 15 of the European Convention on Human Rights already allows for derogation from some articles of the Convention where there is a state of emergency, as now. The government therefore already has the powers it needs to respond to the existing terrorism threat.

The only rights which can never be violated in any circumstances are the right to life, the right not to be enslaved and the right not to be tortured.

I'd therefore like to ask the government, which of those rights it would like to be able to breach?

I suspect the answer is torture. They will use the ticking time bomb scenario to justify a return to medieval practices of extracting information, even though there is no reliable evidence that torture works. Plus it makes martyrs.

I'm actually more concerned that the reaction to a terrorist attack is to take away the Human Rights Act designed to protect citizens......I must be seeing this wrong because I can't understand it. Why take away human protection for all based on a few radicals? Could a fellow MN'er explain why my simple view of this is wrong, because it must be, surely? I genuinely don't get this

Yy Grace.
I am shocked at hw many people are prepared to throw away their own freedoms with no thought of the actual consequences.

TM had years as HS to deal with this.
What did she do??
Cut community policing to the bone, you know, the type that is proven to reduce terrorism, and cut resources and other officers.
Now instead of putting that all back (costs money) they are writing our rights away which won't help stop attacks, but will help them shut down anyone they like.

All those who are in favour of this- if you really wanted to stop terrorism, you should be protesting outside parliament arguing to reinstate community police, and to increase resources.

luckily you can vote for whoever you want of the candidates Fedup if 'slagging off' or anything else is what decides your vote. Thank goodness we are all free to do that. Lucky we have human rights to protect us in doing that.

Hardcore is absolutely right though.

There's no point the Tories adding more laws- its cynical window dressing.
what the terrorists do is already illegal.
And it is irrelevant if acts of terrorism become 'even more illegal', if there are not enough police on the ground to act properly in the community to keep us safe, enough security services monitoring to spot patterns and risks internationally, nationally, locally, or enough ambulance and NHS staff to help if someone's evil plan gets through and kills and injures the public.

Not to mention the other things like widows' pensions which have been slashed under the Tories and which families bereaved in these types of attacks may need to rely on.

We also need to deal with the causes of terrorist thinking and activity which are multiple and interrelated and which will take a vast amount of resources at local level and including international coordination.

I've no doubt wildly underestimated the cost and complexity of the various types of skilled people and resources that are needed at all levels of this awful situation because I am not involved in dealing with it.

So I would be terrified if any more of the many professionals who need to be there working on this, are cut beyond the 20K police they have already cut, and if insufficient resource is put into the NHS' unprecedented funding crisis under the Tories, just as the most obvious examples of the way that the small state Tory ideal puts a decent society at risk.

I won't even start on the Tory cuts to schools and education generally and the lack of support for (young people's) mental health... etc etc.

*Pacific
*
I've just googled Martin Niemoller and although he was in camps he didn't die in one but lived to 92 and died in Wiesbaden.

Foslady it's a cheap, kneejerk reaction.
Basically it costs a lot less- but looks like you are doing something immediately.
Rather than funding more police, which isn't as flashy, takes a while to work, and costs a lot more.

Plus it has the added side effect of meaning they can start hacking away at everyones rights and freedoms.

That's it really.

Thanks Kalamari.

I was waiting for Pastor Niemoller, it's Godwin's law by another route.

I'm guessing the YANBUs don't live in major conurbations.

What the police/security services need are more resources, not more rights. Current legislation is more than adequate to police criminal and terrorist elements, but the manpower/training/other resources are not.

This ^^

Thanks for that bit of advice..... I've definitely made up my mind now. Thank you!!!

hula
All those were in UK law long before the Europeans got into it.

Thanks Lana

So I have got it right then. Looks like the terrorists are getting their wish then because the countries that fund their actions don't appear to have much in the way of human rights either......

"very childish to accuse conservative voters as not being human - nice shock "

Yeah, well. Bear in mind that people concerned about the erosion of human rights have already been, by implication, called terrorist sympathizers on this thread................

And the same accusation is routinely thrown at Labour voters both on here and in real life. So a slightly childish joky insult rather pales into insignificance.........

NameThatPrune makes a very very good point.

In order to stop these home grown terrorists, we need to start at the very beginning.
So to put it simply.....
*More funding for education and young peoples mental health resources- get to them before they are isolated and radicalized.

*More police and community officers, more resources and boots on the ground - again community policing has been shown to work a lot better than more (pointless) laws.

*More funding for the NHS.

Under the Tories all this has been cut to the bone, and will continue to be so.

Surely our "way of life" is enshrined in the HRA? If we tear it up, we have already let the terrorists win.

In a nutshell.

Once the rights are taken out of law they are lost for everyone! There's not a clause that says 'take this law away for terrorists but leave it in for Sharon at number 30 because she's alright'.
We have the right laws in place but they are not enforced properly because the police and security services don't have the funding.
The ECHR is not part of the EU it was formed as a British initiative after the Second World War in a response to Hitler's human rights abuses. It stops government abuses of power and keep us all safe.

User are you going to answer my point about what happens when this is used to shut down legitimate protest groups?

When the Government do something and we try and protest, and have our voices silenced?

Yeah and you don't get to whine about insults whilst calling anyone who disagrees with you a terrorist sympathizer.
It works both ways, you see.

"When the Government do something and we try and protest, and have our voices silenced?" Especially in the light of disastrous Brexit

How very House of Cards this all is.

medtina - police are recruited as general police. There isn't a separate specific police officer. CT departments are running with vacancies because there aren't enough of your 'general' police to move from immediate threats to life, ongoing serious crimes etc. To be released.

What crimes would you like the police to stop dealing with to free up a few 'general' police officer to move into CT?

Police budgets have been cut year on year 20% a year. Recruitment was stopped for a long time. People in support roles were made redundant because police staff can be, whereas police officers can't be made redundant.

Then the jobs the support staff did have to be done by police officers, further decimating the operational capability.

I work for the police.

Teresa May is "reckless and misinformed" according to Amnesty International

www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/theresa-mays-comments-human-rights-are-reckless-and-misinformed-says-amnesty

I'll personally listen to them rather than the mumsnet Tory apologists.

YAHugelyNBU.

User what a silly comment. Only people who live in large conurbations can understand that the removal of their human rights is good for them?

Yes I do actually - central London and grew up here in the 70's and 80's so went through the whole IRA bombing on a regular basis. Not something I want to go back to in terms of erosion of human rights. I didn't feel fear on a daily basis just as I don't feel fear now.

Do you remember the Birmingham 6 or the Guildford 4? Or Operation Demetrius?

user1471545y174 I live in a major conurbation (and narrowly avoided a terrorist attack). I am one of the YANBUs. The more right wing Tories have been dying to dismantle human rights for years and the latest incidents are just a good excuse for them to do so. It's shameful opportunism.

This will have a knock-on effect on all sorts of things.