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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should it be illegal for 1st cousins to marry?

555 replies

brasty · 06/06/2017 20:38

My DP's parents are 1st cousins, and DP has a genetic illness. Marrying your 1st cousin increases the chances of genetic illness. So I wonder if we should simply make it illegal for 1st cousins to marry? Obviously anyone married would stay so, it would only apply to new marriages.
AIBU?

OP posts:
hereyougoagain · 08/06/2017 20:41

Francis, I could have just kept shtum about his autism and appeared as more reliable narrator? ;) When I said I didn't know anyone i didn't think of him.
ASD is not his diagnosis at all, and he was never called that in our family, god knows my aunt may be offended for all I know that I called him autistic. But knowing the symptoms as I do now having lived in England he presents as a person with severe autism.
Ok, if it makes everyone happier I do know one person with ASD - my cousin. But we know exactly where his condition comes from, and it's through his mum's lineage(not Russian btw).

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 08/06/2017 20:42

But hereyougo how would you even know if you've met people with ASD?

People don't walk around with a label, so how would you even know who has it?

TheFirstMrsDV · 08/06/2017 20:42

francis there is a fantastic organisation working to abolish all such institutions.

Their website is worth a look if you are feeling up to it.

wearelumos.org/

It is funded by JK Rowling.

hereyougoagain · 08/06/2017 20:45

In how many different ways can I answer that 'NO'?

God, I understand this already, great to have such experts on the thread. I was just explaining the trajectory of my thoughts, I was wrong, ok, good to know.

FrancisCrawford · 08/06/2017 20:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

8misskitty8 · 08/06/2017 22:42

hereyougiagain never mind your relative being offended, pretty sure you've offended quite a few on here.

he looked like an ordinary boy what prey tell does a child with asd look like ?

But the worst thing you've posted is that asd is caused by relatives marrying each other. Do you actually think or check before posting such drivel ?

DixieFlatline · 08/06/2017 22:56

hereyougoagain seems, whether she is conscious of it or not, to have a conception of a primary ASD diagnosis as being 'bad' and ASD traits/symptoms allegedly secondary to something else as being an unfortunate state of affairs that doesn't 'count' as the bad, real ASD.

Kind of like the old good AIDS and bad AIDS thing.

Pallisers · 09/06/2017 03:19

But we know exactly where his condition comes from, and it's through his mum's lineage(not Russian btw).

You might want to make sure the researchers get the memo you got on what causes autism. I didn't know you could trace it through a lineage so you should definitely publish that.

Also I think you should set up a Russian sperm bank with "guaranteed no Autism or ASD". You'll make a fortune as long as you continue the false claims.

Russia is the epitome of health and functionality - that is really funny.

hereyougoagain · 09/06/2017 09:43

I guess like everybody else I'm reading up on election and all that happens in this conversation is people snatching individual words/phrases and twisting them to find reasons to get offended or show their self-righteousness and how wrong I was or how I dared to word something this or that way.
That makes discussion quite futile, so I'll answer a couple more remarks because I really don't want anyone to feel offended and will hide this thread, life is too short for trying to placate the posters who will always find something wrong with others.

he looked like an ordinary boy what prey tell does a child with asd look like ? What I meant I didn't have a chance to observe any unusual behaviour, of course people with ASD look like humans and nothing else, I think you know I didn't mean to say he should have looked abnormal. I talked to DD yesterday trying to understand how the other children feel about him being allowed to do things which no one else in the class are allowed and having his special seat/place. What she described alone was enough to know he wasn't NT and it was managed really well with the kids not minding at all and taking it for granted that he could have his special routine and allowed toys which no-one else could have- DD said it was to help him learn.

But the worst thing you've posted is that asd is caused by relatives marrying each other.
I didn't post that, all I said that genetic disorders including autism are more likely to be passed on if relatives with these disorders marry each other, which is common sense. It was in response to the poster with a child with ASD saying she wondered if it was a result of her grandparents/greatgrandparents? being cousins, would you like to go back to her post and ask her if she even thinks before she posts??

seems, whether she is conscious of it or not, to have a conception of a primary ASD diagnosis as being 'bad' and ASD traits/symptoms allegedly secondary to something else as being an unfortunate state of affairs that doesn't 'count' as the bad, real ASD.
I/she don't separate it as bad or good ASD. Certainly her and his life would be a million times easier if he didn't have ASD, it is not a pre-requisite with his condition, as far as I understand. On the other hand, I think she'd gladly have a child with "just" ASD over a child with tuberosis sclerosis.

You might want to make sure the researchers get the memo you got on what causes autism. I didn't know you could trace it through a lineage so you should definitely publish that.

How is it even possible to interpret my words like that??Confused Isn't it obvious I was talking about his particular case? HIS Asd is caused by his tuberosis sclerosis, as part of this condition. His tuberosis sclerosis is a result of his mother being a carrier, which she wasn't aware of until she had him. We later became aware that her cousin on her father's line had a child of TS too(the cousin lived in a different country and the diagnosis took a while, so the link wasn't immediately obvious). In the end they all had genetic testing and traced it to that line in the family. I never said they traced autism to that line in the family, it is lazy to read my words like that.

Cheerio - will stick to reading up on election, I'm sure all the indignant posters here will be very glad to see me go! I hope it won't get boring with no one to hound.

lljkk · 09/06/2017 11:00

Tuberous sclerosis is almost always inherited from just one parent. It isn't a disease associated with marrying a known relative. It typically happens after spontaneous mutations. Bit like NF2.

Look at genetic diseases in the Amish community if you want to slag off people marrying known relatives.

Anatidae · 09/06/2017 11:15

hereyou I'm a geneticist.

It's just not true that 'Russian people' have no ASD. For the following reasons.

'Russians' are not one homogenous genetic group (actually no human groups are but that's not the point here.) they DO share a language over a remarkably wide geographical area but you can't sequence someone's genome and say 'this person is Russian.' There are huge areas involved with difference people's - the Kievan rus were actually Vikings, so people from that sort of area have similar roots to swedes. Then there are Caucasian populations, nomadic peoples like the Sami and similar groups, Altai, yada yada ... and in NONE of these groups (or indeed any of humanity) is there more difference between groups than within them.

So there's no such thing, genetically, as 'being Russian.'

There is such a thing linguistically and culturally. Russian has a pretty awful record on shoving the mentally and physically disabled out of sight.

Also, I now work in clinical trials and I have seen a LOT of asd diagnoses. Lots.

TheEagle · 09/06/2017 11:43

This is a fascinating article and explains very well a lot of the points raised on the thread.
www.google.ie/amp/www.pennlive.com/articles/18013311/genetic_disease_is_ravaging_la.amp

8misskitty8 · 09/06/2017 15:28

hereyou You also posted that you thought the same as that poster. You also made comments about 'interbreeding' and island living to thank for when talking about CF. Several comments you have made have been implying asd, and CF are somehow connected to 'interbreeding' and cousins marrying.

Russia is also a country along with others who hid away children with disabilities in orphanages/ homes and left, forgotten about by society.

7461Mary18 · 09/06/2017 15:48

I don't think discussing the Russian issue gets us very far. I suppose the fact Russians are not having many children and Russian women ilke to find Western men who don't drink, die young and beat them up perhaps will have genetic in a sense consequences but that's a side issue.

I don't think anyone wants to breed only clones who are perfect but plenty rightly to save children suffering want to avoid some of the most awful conditions and plenty of groups of people do have genetic tests before marriage. I don't think that's morally wrong - it is just the modern equivalent of taking a wife only from a different village from yours or being Genghis Khan fathering babies across Europe far and wide and is pretty sensible genetically.

Anatidae · 09/06/2017 21:07

There's a theory that cf incidence may be somehow linked to past outbreaks of the Black Death. As being heterozygous for sickle cell is to a degree protective against malaria so the heterozygous state of the cf carrier is thought (and it is just a hypothesis, we can't really test it) to perhaps have provided some protection against the Black Death and so have increased in incidence due to selection pressure which outweighed the negative effect of being heterozygous

Every single one of us carries thousands of potentially lethal mutations - most are incredibly rare and the chances of breeding with someone who has the same recessive Ones is remote.

There is far more variation within groups of humans than between them and there is no direction to evolution. A sickle cell carrier has a survival advantage in a malarial area.

That cousins should not marry is sensible.

lljkk · 09/06/2017 21:09

I don't think I know a single human being with tinnitus.

My dad has lots of cousin marriages in his ancestry. But no record of anyone with tinnitus. It turns out my parents are 7th cousins or so, too.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 09/06/2017 22:37

I have tinnitus,so does my mum. Would you necessarily know if someone had it or not,I don't go round informing everyone.

Alisvolatpropiis · 10/06/2017 01:06

To the main point of the thread - cousin marriages make me feel uncomfortable, but I was close with my cousins when we were growing up and it would be akin to having a child with my brother.

In response to the point about there being no children with ASD in Russia. Well, I'm in my late 20's and remember the huge scandal in the 90's about the industrial scale Russian orphanages, which were just filled with children with disabilities. Russia doesn't like to talk about its issues, the astonishing silence over the enormous AIDS issue there is an example.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 10/06/2017 08:25

Yes, I do too Alisvolatpropiis, dreadfulSad

FrancisCrawford · 10/06/2017 08:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFirstMrsDV · 10/06/2017 11:35

Tinnitus is often caused by damage to the ears isn't it?
Factory workers, musicians etc develop it. Ear infections, head injury....
I am not sure Tinnitus is the best condition to drag into the genetic argument. Too many variables.

But talking of d/Deafness. The vast majority of deaf babies are born to hearing parents. Yet Deaf people suffered horrendous historical oppression including forced sterilisation.

It shows where making judgements based on fuck all knowledge of genetics can get you though.

FrancisCrawford · 10/06/2017 11:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFirstMrsDV · 10/06/2017 11:46

Yes, sorry, I was aware that hearing loss is a cause too. I meant that because within the category of hearing loss there are also so many variables, it wasn't a good condition to use as an example.
Sorry for not being clear.

My GF was Deaf from infancy. He suffered terrible tinnitus and ear pain as a result of his Deafness. He married my GM who was Deaf from a bout of meningitis
No one else in our large family (five kids all with 2+ kids and now great grandkids) are Deaf or hard of hearing.
Yet there have been periods in history where people tried to ban Deaf marriage.
There are genetic causes of Deafness/hearing loss and we understand how all that works much better now.

I expect things have moved on a hell of a lot since I was involved in the community.

HarHer · 10/06/2017 13:24

I was brought up in a farming community, so was my husband. First cousins have married in previous generations, mainly for land related issues

7461Mary18 · 10/06/2017 17:08

Yes, marriage is and was often about money and power and land once humans started settling down rather than moving over the planet. When we moved we probably raped and pillaged our way over the planet with lots of genetic mating - even my ancestors the Neanderthals mated with my ancestors homo sapiens. They say that partially causes depression actually but also meant we homo sapiens could cope with the very cold Northern Winters when we moved up here out of Africa - so we had the good and bad points caused by that. Most Africans today don't have that mix of 3% Neanderthal genes.

(My mother had tinnitus in her 40s. A bit of a side issue to the thread really but lots of people have it and you would never know to look at them.)