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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think all police were armed?

196 replies

strawberrygate · 05/06/2017 08:28

I'm really not seeing why this would now be a bad thing. There were police right there at the London attack, and if they'd been armed then some lives could have been saved.
If someone drives a truck through a crowd in somewhere random like Sheffield, there will be police there, but currently not armed. How would they stop them? they would have no option but stand and wait until armed response arrived, which in most areas would be a hell of a lot longer than the 5 mins. or so it took in central London.
We're sitting ducks.

OP posts:
ShatnersWig · 05/06/2017 10:08

Freddy I don't live in London, or any other city, or sizeable town. If anything happened round here, it would take ages for a NORMAL police officer to arrive, let alone an armed one. Wouldn't matter if the normal officer was armed or not. By the time he'd got here, the terrorist would have slaughtered the lot of us. So arming him would make no fucking difference. Idiot.

trixiebelden77 · 05/06/2017 10:09

I live in Australia where police are armed. I think we expect an awful lot of a 21 yr old who has just finished training when we expect them to make perfect decisions on the spur of the moment about the exercise of lethal force. It is such a tough job.

In any event, I read that all three attackers were shot dead by police within 8 minutes of the first 999 call. I really don't know how much better you expect your police to be - it's amazing they were able to do that.

ShatnersWig · 05/06/2017 10:10

Magic: "officers should have adequate means of protecting themselves". If you believe they should be armed, it's actually about protecting the public, not themselves.

LiveLongAndProspero · 05/06/2017 10:11

What about police officers who do not wish to have the responsibility of such a weapon?
well once they are all armed, it will become the norm. You don't want the responsibility, don't join the police

Theresa is that you? You didn't answer the question at all. How will you get them all to be armed can't be answered with "when they are all armed" now can it?

ChocChocPorridge · 05/06/2017 10:13

I don't agree. There are too many police shootings in countries with armed police. Look at what happens already with Tazers, now imagine if those police officers had guns instead. It makes mistakes (which are going to happen, police officers are human) a lot more permanent.

And as to firing at a van to stop the driver - exactly how does adding bullets and an out of control van help the situation?

plominoagain · 05/06/2017 10:21

As a serving officer , if I was told to carry a firearm as part of my job, then yes , I would . Not because I'm some trigger happy paramilitary thug , but because it would be part of my ppe kit .

BUT .

I'd rather not . Because as it stands , the moment I were to discharge that firearm , my life would be turned upside down , for years . IPCC investigations almost always take YEARS to resolve . I'm not putting my family through that stress of wondering if I'm going to lose my job and my pension , when the management are all too eager to hang us out to dry already . Of course all shootings should be investigated . But do it quickly , and honestly , without playing to the press for a start.

And that , is why they're struggling to recruit firearms officers . I'd like more of them to back us response officers up , big time. But I totally understand why there aren't as many as needed .I'm lucky , inasmuch as I work a busy London borough and arvs are always relatively nearby . But the outer boroughs , not so much . And my son who works with Cumbria , his wait is even worse .

Freddystarshamster · 05/06/2017 10:22

Shatners So the terrorists only work to a quota then? Once they finished killing all of you they just walk off? Or are they likely to keep going until they're stopped? And who then is going to stop him/arrest him? Yep a police officer who can't run away. Who is armed with a collapsible aluminium stick and a tiny run of spray. How do you think they'll get on?

chickenjalfrezi · 05/06/2017 10:22

It's a stupid argument to say if a terrorist attack happened somewhere more rural 'or in a little seaside town' then how many people would be slaughtered waiting for an armed response?

The fact is the likelihood of such an event is next to zero as terrorists strike places to traumatise and cause fear to as many people as possible.

The reason why they strike a pop concert in Manchester or Paris or a bridge in London or an office building in New York is there are many people that have a 'that could have been me' feeling and it adds to their cause.

If a terrorist went on the rampage in the high street of a small town for example then fewer people can relate to it.

DJBaggySmalls · 05/06/2017 10:23

All armed police need to be able to shoot to a high enough standard that they did not shoot innocent bystanders.
In the USA the police are armed and they do not have free to access healthcare. If you are shot as an innocent bystander you can be bankrupted by your medical bills. The police wont pay them.

Sostenueto · 05/06/2017 10:27

Cloud cuckoo land thinking arming police is a good idea. Shooting terrorist through vehicle window screen. Think people watching too many action films or playing too many Nintendo games. Pfffft!

Figaro2017 · 05/06/2017 10:27

When you walk through London and you want to ask an officer something who do you approach? Normally the unarmed one because for some reason they seem more approachable. Surely that has to be good for basic intelligence gathering?

Sostenueto · 05/06/2017 10:30

Oh and by the way just to emphasis my point an innocent bystander was also shot when the police shot the terrorists in London. Just a small detail to some hung ho people.

ShatnersWig · 05/06/2017 10:31

Freddy You're comparing apples with oranges. A more rural situation is so totally different to somewhere like Manchester of London.

Sostenueto · 05/06/2017 10:31

G.u.n.g ho that should be auto correct a piece of s...

Raisinsaretoddlercrack · 05/06/2017 10:33

Hand guns are inaccurate at long range so to take down someone driving a van they would need some sort of assault rifle for the range and accuracy. Giving our officers hand guns would not be very effective for this type of incident, arming our officers with more powerful weapons would be very costly.

Our police force has highly trained armed response teams who are ready to dispatch to any incident where the suspects are armed. The speed in which our police officers got the most recent attack under control was nothing short of amazing.

OP I understand why you have suggested arming all police officers in light of recent events but think YABU. I would hate the UK to become like the USA with trigger happy cops. In the UK we "police by consent", using force only when absolutely necessary. I think we should all be very proud of the way our police do a fantastic job risk assessing and responding to incidents with a proportionate amount of force.

QuestionableMouse · 05/06/2017 10:34

Had an armed incident in my village and the armed police where here within ten minutes. Just for comparison it takes me ten minutes just to drive into town.

Rather than arming the police, we should be looking at ways to prevent vehicles from mounting the pavement. Concrete bollards would probably be a good start, though they'd take time to install.

Sostenueto · 05/06/2017 10:35

If you want armed police live in America where everyone shoots everyone for no apparent reason. Bit like a Nintendo game....

BoysofMelody · 05/06/2017 10:35

maiden what do you think happens when men are running about stabbing people with knives and only the baddies are armed?

This isn't a computer game and you aren't trying to kill the end of level boss.

By shooting through the windscreen

Yes, a police officer with only basic training letting loose with a hail of bullets at a moving target travelling at 50mph, what could possibly go wrong in that situation.

MaidOfStars · 05/06/2017 10:36

A FOI request to Manchester police in 2012 showed the average armed response time was 3 mins 56 secs for Apr-Nov 2012.

Link

Freddystarshamster · 05/06/2017 10:36

Shatners. I'm not even talking rural areas! Anywhere else other than London/Manchester/Birmingham. Pick any other large town or small city. There is often one ARV covering an entire county.

IAmNotAWitch · 05/06/2017 10:40

I really do not understand un-armed police.

Seem obvious to me, ours all are here in Oz.

BoysofMelody · 05/06/2017 10:41

Pick any other large town or small city. There is often one ARV covering an entire county.

By the same token, there's less likely to be an ISIL terror cell operating in Chalfont St Giles.

Dawnedlightly · 05/06/2017 10:42

One of the reasons the police here are so good is that we don't attract gung ho meatheads who want to be armed.
...well once they are all armed, it will become the norm. You don't want the responsibility, don't join the police. What you call responsibility, if call opportunity to police forcefully/ be violent. Our police police by consent.

ShatnersWig · 05/06/2017 10:43

Freddy There is often one policeman covering a huge rural area. So even if you arm him, he's not going to make much difference is he? Some places barely have a police force at all, which is why arming normal officers is a non-starter from the training point of view and ensuring they have sufficient refresher training. The OP was making a point of talking about places other than London, so I am merely following her lead.

Having some more ARVs might be a reasonable argument but arming all police offers is a total non-starter.

Littledrummergirl · 05/06/2017 10:44

Op, serious question. If you carry a weapon you should be prepared to use it. You are suggesting that all police carry a gun, a weapon designed to kill. People who may not be mentally and emotionally prepared to take a life. Are you prepared to take a life if needed or are you expecting others to do something you can't?

Yabvu.

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