to think all police were armed?

[strawberrygate]

I'm really not seeing why this would now be a bad thing. There were police right there at the London attack, and if they'd been armed then some lives could have been saved.
If someone drives a truck through a crowd in somewhere random like Sheffield, there will be police there, but currently not armed. How would they stop them? they would have no option but stand and wait until armed response arrived, which in most areas would be a hell of a lot longer than the 5 mins. or so it took in central London.
We're sitting ducks.

The reasons this arseholes use vans and knives and home made bombs is because of how hard it is to get guns and automatic weapons in the UK. You realise if all officers were armed they would become targets purely to get their guns? And they'd kill a lot more with guns (Bataclan).

This. Also Major cities are in fact already covered by firearms Support, even if
You can't always see it. How else do You think the 3 terrorists were shot by police within 8 minutes?

I think we have a good balance right now. I don't want to live in a country where you can access guns very easily.

I disagree completely and think it would lead to a lot more innocent lives being lost.

*strawberry" if, as you claim, "From speaking to people in the met. they are very much in favour in all police being armed" why do only 25% of the police want to be armed?

Well, an expert was talking on BBC Radio this morning and they said putting more arms on the street would absolutely encourage these arseholes to target the police to get their weapons. But you know best.

Trouble is, if all police were armed, that would have been a gun attack on Saturday, not a knife attack. More people would have been killed.

Other countries so not train their officers to as high a standard as us. In the USA you can be a policeman shooting a gun at innocent people in less than 6 months. I think it's normally 2 years for one of our standard bobbies. Firearms is obviously longer and much more expensive.

What about police officers who do not wish to have the responsibility of such a weapon?
well once they are all armed, it will become the norm. You don't want the responsibility, don't join the police.
Interesting and coincidentally it's the debate on radio 5 live this morning.

I don't think all police should be armed but there should be more of them, both armed and unarmed.

I Think we could probably do with more armed police units but they don't all need to be armed (do they all have tazers?)
Even if we did want every officer to have a gun it would take a long time to roll it out, it's not as easy as just ordering a load of guns & giving them out.

these lorry attacks occur in places with lots of people and lots of buildings, I think it's a better chance if the driver is shot dead and the lorry then veers into a building, rather than everyone watching on as a drive steers it into crowds of people for 10 minutes.

Outside you at least have a chance to
Run and seek shelter as soon as you
Notice an issue. I fail to see how
It is better that a lorry goes through a building where no one can get out and
Likely no one can tell it's Coming giving zero warning? Also Potentially bringing down parts of said building onto others who may not even be near the vehicle?

How is that an improvement?

How else do You think the 3 terrorists were shot by police within 8 minutes?

beacuse it took place in the very cventre of our capital city. Woud have been a different story in eg. Huddersfield. There are armes response units which cover all areas, but if you're in Kendal or many many less central areas, , you're going to be waiting a hell of a lot longer than 5 mins.

wrong so we just let the driver carry on aiming at people for as long as he likes?

You can see why so many members of the Police are leaving to become train drivers and the like. The money's better and less likely to get your balls shot off. Time to get lots more police and better wages for them. My DH was in 'the job' he got treated like shit from within and without. I am thankful daily he got out.

The shooting at vechiles by police is a tv myth because of the unknown consequences it is rarely done and why they use the devices you drive over to blow all the tyres at once.

I think most police are armed in NI. We had a break in and they came to speak to us as I was giving the officers a cup of tea I noticed the guns didn't really like the idea.

Pleasantly surprised to click onto this thread & see a pretty unanimous YABU.

I agree with every poster on this thread - I'm proud to live in a civilised country that is policed by consent.

Our armed response officers are very highly trained & professional, the accuracy of their weapons coupled with their rigorous training is far, far more effective than a bobby with a handgun would be.

Also, a good point made by my 15 yr old yesterday when I was wondering out loud why they don't go for a softer target was that they want to be shot dead - suicide by cop.
At the moment, they can only be absolutely sure of managing that in the bigger cities; arm all police everywhere, and everywhere becomes a target.

We've seen what happens when police have firearms in stressful situations. They shoot innocent people. A member of the public was caught in the crossfire on Saturday and shot in the head. jean charles de menezes is another extremely tragic example. There's too much risk

It's not actually an easy thing to shoot someone through a windscreen while they're driving, even if highly, highly trained for that sort of thing (which officers in small towns and villages obviously aren't, and frankly if they had to be not nearly enough people would actually get through even the more basic training). Plus even if someone could get a good shot, in busy areas incapacitating a driver would almost certainly result in the exact situation you're trying to prevent anyway.

Guns aren't magic. Despite what the more extreme gun enthusiasts believe, there's no shortage of situations where they're as good as useless, and if every officer had a gun terrorists would just exploit that fact. They already do to a large extent.

Oh strawberry, I'm trying to decide whether you are a goady fucker or just ridiculously naive.

well once they are all armed, it will become the norm. You don't want the responsibility, don't join the police.

So, the 75% of current police who don't wish to be armed might well resign. Where does that leave us when everyone is clamouring for MORE police, moaning about the cuts to the force made by TM while home secretary? If we have trouble getting enough police now, where are you going to find all the new ones? Or do you think that because you'll be armed in future, more people will want to be police officers, just to get to play with guns? Sounds sensible.

boulshired didn't they shoot them through the windscreen in the France attack to stop them?

A member of the public was caught in the crossfire on Saturday and shot in the head

Think it was his hand, not head.

Current system is fine. Highly armed specialist trained units. We don't want to arm everyone ffs.

What's needed is a reverse to the huge cuts the current government carried out recently - the uk police are good, but they can only be stretched so thin.

I don't think you quite understand the enormity of the logistical problems that would be involved, apart from anything else.

There are some 125,000 police officers in England and Wales, around 6,000 of which are armed. It would take YEARS to train the rest, many of whom don't want to be armed anyway or don't have the right skill set for it - many of those who do volunteer for the training fail as it is. The Met is trying to recruit an extra 600 firearms officers now and struggling. It's simply not a feasible thing to do.

These arseholes WANT to die. They had FAKE suicide belts to ensure that they'd get taken out rather than captured because no one will take the risk. Guns will not deter them.

Even if every police officer in the country was armed, that wouldn't stop an attack. Because you going to put an armed copper on every bridge? Outside every pub, every museum? Even if you arm that copper in Kendal, he could be at the other end of the town from the attack and take 8 minutes to get there.

You're being ludicrous.

It's not as simple as just giving someone a firearm. It takes a lot of training and practice as well. I'm not talking about being able to hit a target reasonably accurately on a range - most people can learn to do that fairly easily (though some will never get it). Being able to make the right split-second decisions in extremely high stress situations, lay down accurate fire taking into account not hitting innocent bystanders when you've maybe just sprinted 200 metres, your pulse is doing 1000BPM and you are aware that your own life is at risk takes a certain calibre of individual and shit loads of training and drills. The more police you arm, the lower the average competency will get. It's all about finding the right balance, we may need more in response to the ongoing threat level but arming every officer is not the right approach IMHO.