to wonder why Labour supporters think...

[TipTopCat]

that raising taxes will be the answer to all our problems?

However, the IFS has stated categorically that all that Labour wishes to do cannot be done by raising taxes.

Labour’s proposals would raise spending to its highest level since the mid-1980s and tax levels to record levels in peacetime, the thinktank said. But the party’s plans for tax hikes aimed at top earners and businesses may “not raise anything like” the £48.6bn claimed and its proposals could turn out to be economically damaging, it added.

Additionally, companies currently providing jobs in the UK may well leave it corporation tax is increased.

The 'brain drain' of the 1970s may well emerge too.

There is masses of evidence that increasing tax for high earners does not result in a bigger pot for the government. Reason? High earners stop working so hard, defer promotion, etc.

So why do Labour voters think that a high tax economy is the answer to everything?

I agree of the case for more taxes but I morally object to only one section of society being made to bear the brunt.

A percentage increase accross the board is fairer. That would mean that yes, a higher income individual would in actual amount, pay more, and the lower income individual pay less.

People have commitments no matter how much money they earn. Presuming that somehow higher income individuals don't is unrealistic.

It would be like a communal BBQ. The higher income individual brings the meat, the lower, the pasta dish. It would be fair to ask the higher income family to bring the apple pie perhaps but the lower the cream, but not to expect the higher income individual to bring both.

The IFS have said "may" and "could be" which is not categorically stating by anyone's standards .

*There is masses of evidence that increasing tax for high earners does not result in a bigger pot for the government. Reason? High earners stop working so hard, defer promotion, etc.

So why do Labour voters think that a high tax economy is the answer to everything?*
Because mostly it doesn't affect them so why should they care? Personally i have a massive issue with it, not because we'll be worse off, which we will be, but because just throwing money at things without actually dealing with the issues and infrastructure is not the answer. It's not going to suddenly improve the NHS, all primary school children do not need free school meals, all pensioners do not need the fuel allowance and all students do not need free university education. I'm sick of people thinking that the state should provide everything for every one. Of course, it should provide for those in need, absolutely, but we simply cannot live in these times with a population as big and as ageing as it is and expect the government to subsidise everyone. If we are old and we need care and we have money yes of course we should pay for it. If not, then yes the state should pay.

Headofthehive55, France doesn't calculate unemployment figures the same way the UK does. There is much less fudging of figures. A SAHM mum whose partner earns plenty to support them would generally sign on in France in order to protect NI, pension and maternity rights - she may not receive any actual money but she would count towards unemployment figures. You have to appear somewhere in French statistics, either you are a minor, a student, retired, in work or "unemployed".

But anyway my point was that corporation tax is much higher in France than the figure proposed by Labour and that France has humane principles on the redistribution of wealth. My point was that people claiming that if Labour raises corporation tax, companies will flee to places like France, are not thinking things through.

Corporation tax is not the problem - the real problem is Brexit. That is the real threat to the UK economy.

because just throwing money at things without actually dealing with the issues and infrastructure is not the answer

Agree 100%. The last Labour govt trebled the money spent on the NHS. Over that time, I lost both my mother and father in law to NHS/hospital negligence, both in super-duper brand new state of the art hospitals. Throwing money at it certainly didn't improve the care nor quality of treatment.

My point was that people claiming that if Labour raises corporation tax, companies will flee to places like France, are not thinking things through.

In the new internet-based economy, no they won't move to France, because they won't have a factory nor hundreds of workers. That's the old economy. In the new economy, the business owners are fully mobile and their "staff" are probably already working from home and probably already working abroad in cheaper countries.

A classic case, one of my clients has just relocated to Isle of Man. He runs a website selling downloads (not music) and offering consulting-related services. He has 10 staff, none of whom are UK residents, and he's not met any of them - everything they do is either internet based or local to them in their country. He was paying UK VAT on his EU sales and was paying corporation tax on his company profits and personal tax on his personal wages/drawings. Now UK PLC will get nothing from him! He's one of many. We're now in a global/internet age and it's remarkably easy for internet based businesses to simply up and move.

It is likely a lot of our high tech industries will struggle to recruit after Brexit. Some, like DH's business, are already feeling the effects. They will not thrive so the tax take will be less. There are already insufficiently highly skilled people in this country for the jobs so the business will contract. This is likely to be a huge problem. Encouraging business and making sure it is worth investing in business is key. There is no wealth generated to put into the state if business does not expand and make money!

The rate of corporation tax is just one factor in deciding where a company should be based/operate. If labour's planned increases were implemented the UK would still be one of the lowest taxed western economies. For most companies based in the UK the key factors are a skilled workforce, reliable infrastructure, relatively stable political scene (the may be a change in government but a coup/dictatorship/civil war is unlikely), relatively good standard of living etc so that key workers/owners/directors want to live here. For a lot of the companies who move operations overseas the main issue is the availability of fairly well skilled labour at a very low cost. This low cost labour is usually due in part to the country having very few rules on pay, workers' rights, health and safety, social security provisions/healthcare. Workers often live in overcrowded housing that we in the UK would deem unsuitable. Perhaps the OP thinks that we should follow suit in order to attract more businesses?

Interestingly I'm not aware of many big businesses moving lots of jobs in to the UK in the years since the reductions in corporation tax (which not long ago was at 31%) were announced.

Badbadbunny, the isle of man is a tax haven. Of course people who don't want to pay tax and contribute to the redistribution of wealth will be attracted to it if their business allows them to. There will always be people who are willing to; employ workers who have been educated by the state, kept healthy by the state, use amenities and infrastructure provided by the state, whilst trying to get away with contributing as little to that state as possible. Twas ever thus.

That's not Labour's fault though.

the isle of man is a tax haven

Yes I know, that's the reason most of its' inhabitants and businesses have settled there. If it wasn't, it would be just another run-down ex-holiday resort. It's entire economy relies on the people/businesses who move there and pay tax there. It wouldn't be viable as an independent state if it wasn't a tax haven.

But they still pay tax. Every business/person that moves there is paying tax to the IOM government to pay for the public services. Simple economics. Far better to have a large number of people paying relatively small amounts of tax, than having much smaller population. It's an economic/business decision made by their government.

The IFS reckon Labour would raise 40 billion out of the 48 billion predicted.

Not bad going.

Either way, taxes are going up. Labour will spend them on education, NHS, and police etc, Tory's will just continue to fund each other. Can't see where all these Tory cuts cunts have done anyone any good.

IFS said this figure could be achieved initially but they didn't think it was sustainable in the long term

That's because people will take a bit of time to work out how to avoid the taxes - then the tax take goes down!