to wonder why Labour supporters think...

[TipTopCat]

that raising taxes will be the answer to all our problems?

However, the IFS has stated categorically that all that Labour wishes to do cannot be done by raising taxes.

Labour’s proposals would raise spending to its highest level since the mid-1980s and tax levels to record levels in peacetime, the thinktank said. But the party’s plans for tax hikes aimed at top earners and businesses may “not raise anything like” the £48.6bn claimed and its proposals could turn out to be economically damaging, it added.

Additionally, companies currently providing jobs in the UK may well leave it corporation tax is increased.

The 'brain drain' of the 1970s may well emerge too.

There is masses of evidence that increasing tax for high earners does not result in a bigger pot for the government. Reason? High earners stop working so hard, defer promotion, etc.

So why do Labour voters think that a high tax economy is the answer to everything?

I live in France. The tax system is complicated - but the rate of corporate tax for most businesses is 33.3%
National insurance contributions are much higher than the UK for both the employer and the employee. VAT is the same. Stamp duty is much higher and there are no thresholds - most housing transactions are taxed at 7% (something which keeps a lid on the housing market as do the taxes on any rental properties).

Also employment law offers much better protection for employees than it does in the UK - something which would put off a lot of companies from moving here. Maternity and parental leave works differently with parents having the possibility to take up to 3 years parental leave from their second child onwards. Their jobs must be held open for them to return to.

Corporate tax is not the only factor in costs businesses have to bear and therefore their decisions on location.

Where are these companies going to relocate? Germany? They already have higher corporation tax.

Britain has one of the lowest rates in the world, it can be increased and still be one of the lower rates.

WalkingonLego I came on to echo what Beachcomber said France works like this- 15.45 per cent on the first €38,120 of taxable income (i.e. profit) and 34.33 per cent on the remainder.
So if you are one person with a small business you pay less, but big business (who Labour are targeting) pay a lot more than the UK will under Labour.

I look at two countries more extreme in either direction than uk. Say sweden and usa. Swedes pay higher taxes than americans overall but then compare the 2 countries and see which has a higher quality of life for everyone- hint its not america

Please provide the peer-reviewed evidence for the statement in your first paragraph.

That which can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I really couldn't give a toss what the IFA says. Education is being cut to the bone at a time where people just have to career change, low skilled jobs are gradually disappearing and it will be less easy to employ migrants. If we don't invest in our people the economy is screwed, whatever the rate of tax. Austerity and Brexit together is a recipe for disaster.

And in direct reply to the OP, I think raising taxes will provide solutions to lots of the UK's problems.

In France taxes and national insurance are high (although income tax is low for middle earners and many households pay no income tax). And we have an excellent health system, a good and relatively well funded school system, plenty of social housing, excellent public transport, good benefits for those unable to work and a fair benefit system for those who find themselves out of work.

But I think one of the main differences is that we do not have a two party system which lurches us from one political stance to another. I have lived here for 20 years and many fundamental things remain the same whoever the president is and whoever makes up the government.

Which internetional financial institution or organisation said that the tory austerity measures were completely uneccessary and harmed growth?

The IFS is not a particularly right-wing organisation, but they do have a (stated) agenda - that debt is "bad".

The Tories (as with the US Republicans) have claimed debt reduction as their own - drawing on images of some unemployed person running up credit card debt. This is not the case with the UK. Our economy has a solid base, we have a stable form of government, courts, quality education, etc. Interest rates are in the cellar, and will remain there.

Debt is not necessarily "bad" at all. It is a tool.

What is intriguing to me is that after making debt reduction their idol, the right always runs up debt....and strangle growth in the process.

Yeah go to Ireland where you pay every time you see a GP. Plus hundreds of Euros for Books every year. Just to save big of Corporation and Income Tax.
Incidentally I can't see all the members of the Cabinet disappearing as they will be affected by this too.

redexpat The Centre of Macroeconomics, the Office for Budget Responsibility all stated that austerity measures stunted growth and economic recovery and caused real hardship. Whether they are 'necessary' or not depends on your political standpoint. Paul Krugman has written a lot about the austerity delusion and how 'growth is almost everything'.

*Tories have near on trebled the national debt in a record short time, while cutting and cutting. Explain that to me - and why national debt is only a problem if Labour cause it.

Then I'll answer you OP*

Two words; Budget Deficit.

Would your debt increase or decrease if your household outgoings outmatched your wages?

Tories have promised no tax cuts to the top 5% (which includes themselves).

Labour has promised no tax rises to the the 95%.

I know which option sounds fairer to me.

National debt has risen from .7 of a trillion to 1.7 trillion since 2010 whilst we have at the same time sold of state assets for well under market value and slashed services and frozen pay for state workers.

If we can not afford tax cuts why have we cut corporation tax and tax on the top 5%?

beach I think you will find that France doesn't look as attractive when you are unemployed. As you are more likely to be there as the rate is higher.

pumpkin
Labour take from those who already give the most.

If we can not afford tax cuts why have we cut corporation tax and tax on the top 5%

You do realise that the figures show tax revenue from corporation tax and the "top 5%" has actually increased following the cuts, whereas the tax revenue from those earning over £150k actually fell when Labour brought in their penal 50% tax rate???

The libdems forced the coalition to start removing the tax free personal allowance from those earning over £100k. No doubt it appealed to their voters. Unfortunately, it meant that huge numbers of doctors and dentists (experienced ones usually earn just over £100k), retired early or reduced their working hours to avoid the penal 60% rate. So the unforeseen consequences weren't just that tax revenue didn't rise as expected, it also meant longer waits to see a doctor or dentist!!

A tale of two areas.

One area, fundraised for years. Raffles, donations, you name it. Eventually they built a swimming pool. The labour council then took it over and ran it. Sometime later, the council thought, hey let's sell this land, shut the pool and built a nice shiny new one elsewhere in another area (which hadn't bothered to fund raise) and is difficult to get to from the first area.
So labour comandeer from areas / people who try to support themselves to actively give to those who do not.
Completely wrong.

No Labour will be taking a title bit more from those more able to pay a little bit more. The Tories take from those who have the least and are most vulnerable.
I know which one will get my vote.

Badbadbunny - confused about your statement: 'You do realise that the figures show tax revenue from corporation tax and the top 5% has actually increased following the cuts...."

If you look at the IFS statement on corporation tax for the 2017 election, it states that 'cuts to corporation tax between 2010 to 2016 are estimated to reduce revenues by at least 16.5 billion'. Changes to corporation tax have been some of the 'largest giveaways'. Am I missing something?

You do realise that the figures show tax revenue from corporation tax and the "top 5%" has actually increased following the cuts

You do know that the "top 5" have done very well out of the crisis don't you? I would hope that receipts from them have gone up as their wealth has soared.

Labour took from an area that had provided for themselves leaving them with nothing. NOTHING.
That's what labour does. I have seen it in action.

*Labour has promised no tax rises to the the 95%.

I know which option sounds fairer to me.*

Hahahaha, and you honestly believe that?

The Tories found their ideology on taking from people who have provided for themselves leaving them with nothing. NOTHING.
That's what Tories do.

I have seen it in action.

We all have.

Tory cuts have closed 60 swimming pools in two years. Birmingham alone has closed 3.

Do you think my particular example was morally right make ?
Can you not accept that labour take where they have no business to?