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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think pinning a child down is absolutely unacceptable?

118 replies

LottieG100 · 02/06/2017 23:50

My DD is 10 and sees her dad every other weekend and some extra during holidays. I have wondered about mild SN in the past - one of the reasons being because she can get very hysterical very quickly over minor things. She hates being enclosed, any slight injury or pain and bodily related things like being ill, having her hair or nails cut.

Bearing this in mind; her toe nails have a fungal infection. She can't bare to look at them and getting samples to send for analysis was extremely difficult. Because of the infection, they grow very slowly yet her dad is insisting on cutting them every time she sees him. I'm not exaggerating when I say that she is horrifically upset over having her nails cut. She panics and screams like she's being murdered.

She's come back from his several times now saying he has forced her to let him cut her nails. I've asked how he can force her (knowing how difficult it is to persuade her) and she's said she gets as upset as she does at home but he pins her down and does it anyway. He later laughs about it. I've pointed out to her that she would be absolutely livid about being pinned down if I were to do it and that she'd tell me so and that no one has a right to do something to her body that she doesn't want them to. I've told her she needs to stand up to him and say it's unacceptable but she said she's worried he won't see her anymore if she does. I said that she can't carry on letting him hurt and upset her on that basis but she then clams up.

Having tackled him, he thinks she needs to get over it and is being ridiculous to get in such a state about it all. He doesn't see anything wrong in what he's doing. AIBU to think pinning a child down is absolutely wrong and to take matters out of her hands and tell him that if it happens again then contact will be restricted until he takes matters to court?

OP posts:
SparklyUnicornPoo · 03/06/2017 00:31

There are times pinning a child down is necessary, but no, it doesn't sound acceptable from your updates. I think you need to explain to him that as you had already cut her nails the day before they don't need doing and tell him that he either stops it or you will be forced to look into restricting access. It does sound very much like a power thing.

LottieG100 · 03/06/2017 00:31

But this isn't for medicine, or anything life or death. He is causing her unnecessary upset.

OP posts:
LottieG100 · 03/06/2017 00:35

I have spoken to the GP and school about her sensitivities but she's fine at school so it's impossible to get a referral. She's so naive and sensitive that she can barely watch a PG rated film without having awful nightmares. She's so clingy that she won't stay with anyone but me or her dad. She is extremely selfish and has no empathy with anyone.

OP posts:
SparklyUnicornPoo · 03/06/2017 00:36

Sorry, just seen your DD has told him you've already cut them. You need to tell him yourself, not DD, so that there can be no excuse about him thinking DD is just saying that to get out of having it done.

MrsTerryPratchett · 03/06/2017 00:38

I don't even hold DD (6 yo) down for life-protecting stuff. When she was a toddler, for vaccinations; yes. Since then we have a policy of her-body-is-her-body. We had to have jabs for a holiday recently and with much bribery and explanation, she let the doctor. Learning consent is important and this is a way of teaching her.

What your ex is teaching her, OP, is that men you love force you to go through things you don't want them to do. Things that you consent to when a nicer person is asking you. They may withhold their love if you don't put up with it. From the sounds of it, he is trying to abuse you through her.

All the apologists either haven't read the thread properly or don't understand abusive people.

llangennith · 03/06/2017 00:39

Am I really the only person who thinks this is unacceptable? Her father is trying to control her, and you OP.
Tell him he is NOT to force her or hold her down to do anything.
And tell a social worker or whoever what he is doing.
Maybe you should rethink his access to her. At 10 she's approaching puberty and he needs to back off.

Pollyanna9 · 03/06/2017 00:40

Lottie is right - she's not having to receive chemo - it's nails that have only just recently been cut!

Sounds like he's making a point entirely for his own benefit without regard for his DD and disdain for Lottie.

I personally feel that answer lies in circumventing this bullshit by getting a plan of action in place driven by and executed by your DD that she does herself and all the satisfaction she'll get from watching her fungal nails growing out and getting better. That's the road I'd go as you'll otherwise just be butting heads with him from now until kingdom come.

Although by the sounds of him, if it's not this (you get it sorted), sounds to me like it would be something else. I often find it's the chaps who want to show you how 'soft' you're being and 'kids have to learn' kind of attitude (which I really really hate).

I mean she's 10 not 5 (when many of us have had to hold arms out of the way for example to get meds down) and it feels quite inappropriate to me at that age - does he actually WANT a fight, does he WANT her to fight back? It's not ok but there is possible solution to be found especially with emplowerment of DD. She may find filing is WAY more preferential to nail clippers (I don't mind them but to me they feel a bit yeuch at times) and since she needs to file for Britain in terms of the toenail fungus, that may well be a very sensible way around it and enabling of her doing it to herself for herself.

LottieG100 · 03/06/2017 00:43

That is precisely how I feel MrsTP.

OP posts:
SmitheringSmithison · 03/06/2017 00:44

My daughter is super compliant with everyone and wouldn't go against them too-makes it tricky. I have however learnt over the years that if she is coming to me and telling me she is upset then it's for me to advocate for improvement on her behalf.

In this situation as he is causing genuine upset and probably increasing her anxiety around it I would have no qualms in telling him myself that his behaviour around cutting her nails when they have already been done is out of order and needs to stop immediately and that if it doesn't you will support her when she decides she no longer wants to visit him because of his lack of respect for her body autonomy.

With regards to my daughter I'd tell her that I was telling her father he wasn't upsetting her and why. If she was still coming back upset after I'd had the word then I would tell her that it's fine if she only wants to visit daytimes and not over night to stop him doing it.

SmitheringSmithison · 03/06/2017 00:46

*he was upsetting her

LottieG100 · 03/06/2017 00:48

I've told him they've been cut already. He does it anyway. It is exactly the situation that if it's not this, it's something else. He made her have her hair cut short when she didn't want to, he forced her to share his bed when she didn't want to. He lies to her and breaks promises and she feels powerless to stop him. As do I, because she wouldn't speak against him to anyone but me for fear of upsetting him.

OP posts:
IDontBowlOnShabbos · 03/06/2017 00:51

Ok, so from your updates there's no reason for him to cut her nails, other than a power trip for him.

Is she happy to go to his? Does she enjoy spending time with him? As there was abusive behaviour in your relationship is there any record of this (police, social services or even friends/family)? I would suggest you talk to her about body autonomy. Encourage her to tell her dad that she is in control of cutting her own nails and she has already done them in the last couple of days.

Also you tell him that you're glad he's taking an interest in her health (even though you suspect he's doing it for his own reasons). Say that she's more comfortable doing it at home herself and that you're supervising and say that it's could look like he's being abusive. If he doesn't want that and wants contact to carry on when she's a teen and has more choice on if she goes to his, he needs to think about the relationship he's making now with her.

LottieG100 · 03/06/2017 00:52

She will not go against him and he knows it so anything I say is redundant.

OP posts:
LottieG100 · 03/06/2017 00:55

Yes, there's records of his abuse towards me. She doesn't seem to be happy about going or some of the time while there but is desperate for his love and will do anything to get it; even at expense to herself. She accepted him not letting her go to her best friends party and didn't complain to him even though he then left her with his mum (against DDs wishes) so he could go out.

OP posts:
RoseTico · 03/06/2017 00:58

Given your posts, I think perhaps you should stop contact until the condition is cleared up. Is it court ordered?

Though it's worrying that you say he was abusive to you and that he pins her down to cut toenails you cut a few days before, that it's a power trip for him. Perhaps you need to stop contact altogether? I'd be very alarmed about my dd getting strong messages every other weekend that men can bully her and dominate her and she has to be quiet about it. Stop telling her to stand up to him. She's not an adult. She has you to stand up for her.

Zafodbeeblbrox10 · 03/06/2017 00:58

Smacks of the 1980's "pin down therapy " for troubled kids, later abandoned after public outcry. If it wasn't warranted then, for those problems, why should it be condoned now for lesser things?

SmitheringSmithison · 03/06/2017 00:58

In that case then I would start documenting every incident that she comes home upset about and why-with recordings wherever possibly to back you up (voice record her telling you) and involve social services for the emotional abuse that he is inflicting on her.

With regards to daughter when she tells you he has done something else to upset her, listen but don't show her your upset/anger. My reply each time whilst obviously comforting her if she needed it would be 'I know darling, I have told him it upsets you. If you don't want to go i understand and won't make you'.

Eventually she will make that decision and you can fully support her with it.

RoseTico · 03/06/2017 01:00

She doesn't seem to be happy about going or some of the time while there but is desperate for his love and will do anything to get it; even at expense to herself.

Unless you want this to be a pattern she repeats throughout her life, you need to step in...

IDontBowlOnShabbos · 03/06/2017 01:01

Sorry crossed posted again!
That is a really shitty position to be in, really feel for dd and you. Do you think he's the type of person to go to court or would he just throw around threats?

Unfortunately, legally theres not much you can do if dd is happy to go there. The only thing you can do is keep sticking up for her and keep instilling the fact that she is in control of her body, she doesn't have to do things she's not comfortable with and that you will always protect her.

Its so hard, my dad was a complete dick (my mum and him are still together) but at that age I just blamed myself and thought everything was my fault. You're doing the right thing by sticking up for her.

SpareASquare · 03/06/2017 01:02

Meh.
He's cutting toenails. Sometimes essential, sometime preemptive.

I'd be more worried about how you may be influencing her behaviour. Coaching her the way you are isn't the answer. Even if you feel noone is willing to help you, counselling might.

Pollyanna9 · 03/06/2017 01:03

Sounds like you and her are still in an abusive relationship with this man. This is setting a very bad precedent for her for her future and relationships with men - she's going to end up getting with difficult emotionally unattainable possibly abusive men, seeking that love she didn't get from her father....

You need to protect her and keep her away from him by the sounds of things - he doesn't sound very nice and is obviously unreliable, thoughtless and selfish to boot.

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 03/06/2017 01:03

Meh. He's cutting toenails. Sometimes essential, sometime preemptive.

No, not meh. They're fungal toenails and need special care.

ittakes2 · 03/06/2017 07:39

I'm sorry you are in this situation. Does sound like he is being controlling and on a power trip. Can you get a letter from GP or podiatrist saying what care she needs for her toes as proof he is not doing the right thing and show it to him? Also consider lightly cutting before she sees him so to tell him it was done just before she got to his house? Not ideal but demonstrates if he does it again than it's so clear it's his power trip.
I feel traumatised just reading he holds her down to do this. She's 10 - he's a grown man - how frightening for her. Repeatedly frightening. And the fact he doesn't register her distress about it makes it so much worse. If it needed to be done and he was feeling distressed at her distress than that could perhaps mean something different.

5BlueHydrangea · 03/06/2017 08:15

This is child abuse. There is no need for the nails to be cut. There is no need for that sort of behaviour. I suggest he needs supervised contact if this is how he thinks it is acceptable to behave. Your poor dd. She complies through fear. Not an appropriate relationship.
I would say this to him. Any more incidents of abusive behaviour - supervised daytime contact only. There could well be worse incidents now or to come. This needs to be stopped now.

Squishedstrawberry4 · 03/06/2017 08:19

Does she need her nails cutting that often? Can she/him/you sand it back instead of cutting