To say no to being the family 'safety net'

[Tallblue]

It would take forever to explain the complicated history of my family so I will be as succinct as possible.

I live overseas and have two small children. I don't work. DH works and we are comfortable but by no means 'rich'.

Back home in the U.K. I have a divorced DM and DF. Also a brother and a sister. All of us three siblings are in our 30's.

From the age of 16 I've had to be financially, emotionally and practically independent. I put myself through school, university and started a career with little support from anyone.

My mother was made redundant several years ago and despite best efforts has not been able to find work. She has just lost her house and moved into local authority accommodation. She manages as best she can within her budget.

My father is a gambler, has always been terrible with money. He lives alone, is retired and has a serious illness. The little money he receives in benefits is usually gambled away.

My brother is long term unemployed and in and out of trouble with the law.

My sister has never worked. Has two children and lives on benefits. Has long term mental health issues and has developed physical issues due to poor self care.

As the person who 'did well' and got away I feel an overwhelming sense of guilt and pressure. From the age of 16 when I started to earn money in a weekend job, through being a student and from there onwards, I've felt somehow responsible for the rest of my family. Over the years I've regularly been asked for money from all members of the family. In particular my father and sister, who both seem to share a total inability to deal with incoming money and outgoing expenses. Both regularly sell items to cash converters, buy items on credit from places like brighthouse and always have some kind of emergency loan ongoing with the benefits agency.

The most recent issue and reason for posting is yet another request for money from my sister today. Apparently her electric and gas both about to run out (its on a pay as you go meter) and bread, milk and essential supplies running low. She says she has no one else to ask.

I've said no. This is a never ending cycle. She contacts me, on the other side of the world as though I'm some kind of bank machine. I feel I have to finally be strong and draw a line somewhere. She is emotionally blackmailing me - how could I leave my niece and nephew without warmth and food etc. but this is always her approach and it's a recurring pattern.

I feel bad for saying no but I can't keep being responsible for her and her children.
AIBU for saying no?

Of course yanbu. You've not given them money in the past, have you?

Aside from signposting them to sources of help and support, I wouldn't give any money.

Are they actually interested in you and your life at all? Do they spend time chatting to you on the phone, online?

I understand....

This was basically me. However, my mother took my last few pennies (dollars actually) when I moved to the UK. I didn't have much money, but would have as I was waiting for my house sale to go through.

I was always bailing them out. Not so much my siblings, but to some extent. Moving to the UK kind of cut the cord. It's been so much better for my mental health.

To be clear, there was also massive domestic and emotional abuse in my family, which has left its mark on all members of my family. I can't feel guilty about not getting caught up in it, I now have 4 dc and focus on them. It's particularly hard as my mum has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and is only 67. It's my dsis that's now looking after her.

Sorry, should also add we are financially ok, but I never tell them about our finances or they would ask for money!

YNBU it's good to help people out a couple of times because people can get stuck through no fault if their own but if you keep doing it she'll just rely on you more and more. She needs to sort her finances out, if you feel guilty then maybe help her but make it clear this is the last time.

And just to clarify I say this as a single mum who was horrendously skint when the kids were really young, I remember having £2.50 to get dinner for 2 days for 3 of us. Thank god for Lidl.

Health visitor , food bank, viable options.
Giving money won't solve the long term issues.

Peaface - yes I've given money in the past. I have no idea how many thousands of pounds I've given. So far this year a few handouts to my sister in similar circumstances as now. Also helped mother with moving costs recently as she had no way to move her belongings to new council flat after losing her house.

Every time I say I'm not doing it anymore. Then the next sob story comes along and I fall for it every time. I know, I've made a rod for my own back. This time I'm trying to hold the line.

Family are generally interested in us. I pay for my DM to visit us once per year in our current country.

My sister is interested but all conversations that start by asking how we are doing somehow end in a request for money.

imip - sorry to hear you've been through it too. Yes my family has a rather complex history too. From a financial perspective I don't say much about my situation but it's quite obvious from the house we live in and the lifestyle we lead that we have a fair amount of money.

YANBU

Yanbu at all.

Stay strong. You have to stop saying yes. You've shelled out thousands already? Bloody hell, this has to end

You are not being unreasonable. Just tell them that you have given as much as you can afford in the past and now you can't any more. Don't feel any guilt - well, try not to. You are not responsible for any of them. You have already helped them out and that hasn't enabled them to change in any positive way. I hope they have the decency to understand and not turn on you.

You are not responsible for them and their financial problems are not your problem. You have to let them sort themselves out.

Don't give a penny to the gambler. You'd be as well giving it directly to William hill.

The more you give, the more they will take it for granted that they don't have to take responsibility for themselves.

I suspect from what you've said that you could afford to give her the money, but you don't want to. That's bound to create more guilt than if you'd struggle to give it or actually couldn't afford to. However you're not responsible for keeping four adults afloat financially and it's fine to say no.

And while you say that they are generally interested in you, it will be telling if they maintain that interest or not once you start saying no.

YANBU. These people are all adults and need to sort themselves out. They won't do that while you keep giving handouts. Say No and keep saying No. This has to stop.

Yanbu. It's hot, we don't need heating at the moment. Or electricity to be fair as it stays light so long. Also with young children the gas company can't make her go without hot water.
As for the food, well I know what it's like to be a single parent on benefits. I was lucky always having my parents to turn to in need. And am so glad they never turned me away so I'm not sure I could do t to anyone else. Obviously yanbu to say no, but part of me thinks do an online food shop for her - Asda/Tesco etc. Order her in some milk, bread etc. I wouldn't give cash especially if they have proven not to be good with it

YANBU. It's hard now but stick to your guns and it will be less hard as time goes on. They are not your responsibility and long term you aren't helping by always bailing them out.

Your mother's move was a one off and fair enough, but you should not provide support for their day to day needs, they need to sort themselves out.

If you keep bailing them out you actually aren't helping them long term to learn to be sensible.

I mean, why not blow the last £5 you have for the week on something you don't really need if someone else will give you more money.

I would make it very clear that you will not be helping in the future and not to ask as it will just cause resentment.

You need to say no and be firm

It's tough but they will get the message x

This is a tricky one. In terms of your sister, do you know where her money is going? Is it lack of financial management or is it poverty?

A few years ago my Dp was made redundant from an extremely specialised job. Whilst he is back in the industry now, for about a year we had our savings exhausted, plus our roof literally caved in, boiler went to boiler heaven plus other expenses cropped up out of our means to pay for them.

I completely understand that feeling of being completely frugal, going without and a child comes home with a request for school trip money, coupled with needing to put food on the table and putting gas and electric on the meter. I will never forget that sick feeling as long as I live. How we didn't miss a mortgage payment that year is beyond me.

BUT my Dm and Df, were incredibly supportive in terms of doing an occasional food shop and buying the kids what they needed (without me having to ask). My Dm would tell me after her divorce in the 70's, her brother helped her get on her feet financially and has drilled it in to me that in times of need ''That's what having a families are for''......

However, you're not a cash cow. By the sounds of it, you don't need to sub your own Df money to fund his gambling. As for your sister, could you find out whats happening with her money? Maybe you can do a spreadsheet, work out her incoming and outgoing expenditure. Is she pissing money up the wall on nights out, clothes ect?

My experience is that, if you do help people like this, it is better to do it through 'things' (eg buying them xx or buying a plane ticket to yout mum) than by giving money (eg transferring money in their account).

I think yu need tyo haver an idea of what is acceptable fo you (again eg £50, £200 or £5000 in the year depending on what you, and your dh, are confortable with)
And then stick with it.
So you can help if that is working for you but also not go over what is your boundary and what will start to make you feel bad.

Families can be quite hard work tbh. Like Song Ive always had this idea that families are there to help each other out. Up to a point. Not when you end up ressentful. Thats why I like an approach where I feel i can give so much and then I stop.

You're not responsible. YANBU. You have my sympathy.

Depending on the situation I would be tempted to set up a weekly standing order of a small amount e.g. £10-20. I would do it on the condition that your sister is never to ask for money again. Explaining you are doing it to protect the relationship, the issue of money is now permanently closed.

Otherwise, if you want to send something, as ahippo said, is there a way of sending items the children need e.g. food? Good shoes?

Equally it might be best to not send anything at all, and that is not unreasonable at all.

Had a similar situation here too, with DH and his DSIS. Never huge amounts, but probably totaling a couple of grand over the years. It was always 'borrowed' but he never got any of it back, including around £600 for a rent deposit. His sister has always worked, usually part-time, but because she has a daughter, DH never wanted to say no to her. My MIL and sister in law also gave her money.

Last year his sister asked for £100 to cover rent shortfall but it became clear that she was spending all her money on booze and drugs. So that was the last time he gave her money. Her daughter is now living abroad, so we don't have that guilt factor!

YANBU You have to cut the cord!! They are adults.

I have bailed a friend out in the past and I nearly fell for it again but then I realised that whatever money she gets she spends, and ends up skint again - she doesn't have any concept of investing in things, paying off debts looking for savings in her day to day life, cheaper rent etc..etc. She has the latest gadgetry and orders a lot of takeaways! What would Martin Lewis say??

Oprah Winfrey tells a tale of how she gave a relative quite a lot of money to start a business when his previous one went bust due to some unforeseen circumstances and the family were about to have their house repossessed. Fast forward a couple of years and the same thing happened again.
Where's the motivation to be responsible when there is another option?

Thanks for all the responses. If nothing else this appeases my guilt a little.

The communication with my sister went the usual way- with me saying no, then a number of abusive messages in response including how she never wants anything to do with me ever again. It's like dealing with a small child. I know she has issues but a lifetime of dealing with her has worn me down. We usually communicate online and I've been blocked. Lets see how long it will last. This time I'm sticking to my guns.

Is there a support/chat group on here for people who've grown up in poverty/difficult situations and gone on to live 'normal' lives- only to be held back by their background/ family? If not, I'm thinking of starting one...

OP I don't know how directly it relates to you, but try the Stately Homes thread as a starting point.

We usually communicate online and I've been blocked. Lets see how long it will last.

Not long, I suspect. As she'll be wanting to tell you she wants you to give her more money very soon, so she'll be back in touch.