To think you already need private healthcare?

[MerryMarigold]

On Tuesday Dh was in a cycling accident (someone cut in front of him on a steep downhill, he managed to break and avoid car, but came off bike at speed - luckily he was wearing a helmet). He has fractured a vertebra in his neck (c7). So, he was in hospital overnight and next day; diagnosed and given a neck brace, then came home all within 24 hours. His next appointment is in 6 WEEKS!

He was not told what he can/ can't do with the brace, how to get out of bed, whether he can shower, how he should wash his hair, whether he should be lying down or it's ok to sit. Anything he was told would have been difficult to retain anyway, having just been in a high impact accident a few hours earlier, concussed/ shocked etc. Nothing written was given to him for me/ any carer to read. I was not allowed to visit until 2.30pm which was after all the docs come round.

Yesterday he went to GP, who signed him off work for at least 6 weeks and gave him names of consultants who he can access more quickly on his work private healthcare. He is seeing one tonight, thankfully. So we should have more idea of what he is able to do or not.

I don't have private healthcare and neither do the kids, not to mention most people in the UK. If they had had this accident, what would they do?...It could be made much worse by doing things incorrectly. Then perhaps surgery needed/ long term problems come up etc. It's not a broken leg in plaster (immovable).

Was he taken to a ward or assessment unit or was he kept in ED? I would phone the ward manager and ask to speak to someone with regard his aftercare. They will push for GP only care and try to fob you off (esp if ED) but insist someone phones for a debrief and have a list of specific questions regarding laying down and sitting.

Yes, and whilst you're seeing the consultant in their private practice, the NHS is paying a locum to run the clinic/theatre list at £100s of pounds per hour.

More and more hcp are turning to agency work as the NHS can't pay them enough. A scrub/anaesthetic nurse costs the NHS upwards of £45 per hour (obviously not all going to the nurse - half are agency fees etc)

Why no payment to see a GP?

Because this would be a very dangerous road to go down. People who aren't sure if they need something checked out might avoid seeing their GP because it'd cost them and they're not sure if they could afford it. It's potentially catastrophic and would be another erosion of the NHS.

The NHS is a bloated monster

The NHS is being gradually worn down by a government who have always ideologically opposed it.

Private healthcare would also, as I said, palm you off onto the NHS if things became too complicated, if they made a mistake or if you needed emergency treatment whilst under their care.

But this is a total myth though. Private consultants are the best of the NHS consultants. Who are they going to 'palm you off onto'?
Their junior colleagues who they are training?

People who aren't sure if they need something checked out might avoid seeing their GP because it'd cost them and they're not sure if they could afford it

But this doesn't happen in any of the countries with co-pay systems. Ireland, Australia, France...

It's scaremongering.

And the NHS isn't being worn down. It is expanding every single year and under every single government

It just can't keep pace with expectations of people with your 'I want everything and I want it for free and I want it NOW' mentality

I pay to see a private GP - if it is not an urgent matter - which is when the NHS is perfectly good.

I can't afford to ALWAYS pay, but sometimes, when I can and when the convenience overrides the cost then I pay. (it also helps that we live within half a mile of a Nuffield). I think that is enough - being able to pay for GP access if you want to, would not want it to be a general thing.

(though if my elderly - and by no means cash poor - relatives had to pay even a nominal sum, they would not live in the doctor's surgery quite so much!)

It's not a myth. If you need emergency treatment wherever you are, even in a private hospital, you'll be taken to an NHS hospital and receive NHS care, even if that treatment is necessitated by a procedure within a private hospital. There are numerous cases of private healthcare going wrong and the NHS rectifying matters.

It is expanding every single year and under every single government

No it's not. It's been cut (the cuts are disguised as "efficiency savings"), worn down and privatised by stealth since 2010.

It just can't keep pace with expectations of people with your 'I want everything and I want it for free and I want it NOW' mentality

I want healthcare to be free for all, yes.

So there are no private A&E wards?
No private surgical facilities which deal with serious and life threatening conditions?

And the private sector doesn't ever have to rectify NHS mistakes?

www.privatehealthadvice.co.uk/private-nhs-treatment-emergency.html

noLove
Can you show me on this graph where the budget has been cut please?

The "efficiency savings" don't show up in that graph and the budget hasn't grown anywhere near enough even regardless of the cuts, not to mention how much money has been wasted on the top down reorganisation the Tories promised not to enforce.

If you have access to private healthcare so you can free up space on the NHS for us poor people then do it. Do feel so entitled.

That's simply not true. Many private hospitals have ICU and high dependency units. You do not get palmed off into NHS and if you get transferred it's usually to your consultants NHS practice so that they can keep an eye on you.

Equally the consultants aren't being replaced by locums whilst they are doing private work. Most may do one or two 1/2 day sessions privately around their on call shifts and the majority see private patients after hours. I've had appointments at 8/9 at night and on weekends. Most are heads of departments at NHS hospitals so you're not being robbed off by anyone or anything

In the end it got so bad her entire family had to scrape together over £6000 to get it done privately. It's just not acceptable.

She was extremely lucky that she was able to raise the funds, most people would not be able to.

Yes waiting lists are shit, but theres not much that can be done about it given the staff have been cut, budgets down...they do what they can. If enough money was actually put into the NHS, then it wouldn't be quite as bad.

My experience of insurance is, you pay and pay, then something happens and they find all sorts of reasons why they won't cover it Never had health insurance though as I cannot afford it but honestly, my experience of the NHS has been OK. I have a long term health condition that causes me a shitload of pain on a daily basis. They did a scan and discovered gallstones so took out my gallbladder to see if that was what was causing the problems. I had to go to A&E 2 days in a row after the scan and they decided to just keep me in and do the op the next day, so not sure how long I would have waited otherwise. Unfortunately, there were a load of mistakes during the op and I ended up nearly dead...they were trying to discharge me as they were desperate for my bed, but at that time I was slowly dying...bile and blood was filling up my insides. Ended up with a further operation to fix the mistakes and a surgical 'washout'...drains sticking out of me for 2 weeks. And I have extra pain on top of the original pain now. So the op was both botched, and didn't help and left me in a worse place than before So thats the bad...but if the NHS was not here I dread to think how things would have gone. I wouldn't have been able to afford the operation I know that much for sure. I wouldn't be able to afford my meds, I wouldn't have been able to have any scans or anything. So whilst my experience was bad that time, I am still grateful for it. All other experience is good (or, OK) though, especially maternity services which I cannot imagine even privately could be any better...and this is for both of my labours.

Went off on one a bit there. But yeah, the NHS is getting worse due to staff cuts and underfunding. They try as much as they can. Most people would be fucked without it. I am glad some people can find the money to go private, but if the service was funded properly, less people would have to do that.

We need to pay higher taxes overall and a larger proportion of GDP towards healthcare. We expect Scandinavian levels of public services on very low tax rates. And we need to sort out tax avoidance desperately.

Indeed. I see so many people talking about the state of the NHS, but then in the next breath moaning about proposed tax increases.

I do not understand why the prime minister does not sort out this tax avoidance bullshit. There seems to be nothing at all done and large companies with huge profits getting away with paying less tax than my father does. He earns just over 80k. He doesn't resent the amount he pays as he says it is necessary for the country. If he can pay his taxes on that, companies should definitely be able to when they are earning millions upon millions. Its just shit and selfish. 9 times out of 10 the tax avoiding ones will be paying their staff as low as possible too so having the state top up their wages with tax credits. Either pay your taxes or fuck off. I don't really understand when people get scared that these companies will up and leave...when they aren't paying their way anyway! It would be great if all countries could cooperate and close loopholes and such together so that 'tax havens' do not exist at all. Would do everyone (bar a few greedy very rich individuals) good.

YANBU, very, very sadly.

DH broke his shoulder a couple of years ago (not his collar bone, definitely his shoulder). In A&E he was x-rayed, given a very flimsy sling, then told to come back 5 days later to see a consultant. It was awful, he was in so much pain - he was given one shot of oramorph in A&E then just told to take paracetamol

I spent over 2 years trying to get my hormonal issue sorted via NHS, but it was hopeless. Not enough time, being passed from pillar to post, having to wait 6 months between appointments, never saw same doctor twice. And my quality of life deteriorated so much. I felt so, so ill.

We don't have private health care, so ended up having to go direct and see a specialist on Harley Street, it cost and arm and a leg, but within 4 weeks I was on the mend.

I do not understand why the prime minister (whichever party is in, I know Labour ignored it all too)

That was meant to read. I am not laying the blame at the Tprioes feet as noone seems to have attempted to sort it out. Why, I don't bloody know. We could do so much with the extra income, could help so many people instead of rotting away in some ridiculously rich selfish twats offshore bank account.

The NHS is fine to a point. It is massively misused and over managed though. The staff are great but the structure is weird and no one seems to dare touch it.

I have to deal with the NHS, through my job, and they're all very helpful, but the right hand doesn't ever seem to know what the left hand is doing.

I have private health insurance through work and tend to use it. But tbh I use it at the drop of a hat and sometimes for stuff the NHS wouldn't refer me for.

However I've recently been surprised by how good the NHS has been. I needed a colonoscopy. GP referred me on the NHS. I planned to go privately but before I'd got round to organising it I had an appointment through from the NHS and had it done a few weeks later. Very impressed particularly as there was no suggestion that my problem was mega serious or anything.

But I do prefer private for the player waiting rooms, nice coffee and convenient appointment times

sparechange you are so spot on! However, people won't listen. The NHS is a sacred cow and we must not discuss its failings, why these are happening, our expectations or how we think issues like ageing but long-living population should be addressed.

You have to be in your guard and question everything because the service is not structured to have the patient's interest at its heart.

And yes, other systems function much better. And we can go on about how much they pay for healthcare in Europe, but what most people forget about that in many countries (France, Germany) its is a hybrid system where people contribute but receive a semi-private service in return. One day, hopefully the British public will be mature enough to have an honest discussion. Until then, you need private care.

Also just to add to the above, I've voted Labour my entire adult life, and would gladly pay more taxes for an NHS that works well. Sadly, it doesn't work well now, and I lost my son directly as a result of those failings. It breaks my heart to think of how many other families have been similarly failed. There is a reason the U.K. has a higher rate of stillbirth than most other developed countries.

sparechange I agree with so much of what you say and I work in the NHS. Expectations are out of control, people want everything instantly and have no awareness of cost or consideration for others

I also think that the standard of private health cover has deteriorated. DH has cover through his company and every year there seems to be more exclusions. I rang recently to ask for a referral to a gynaecologist only to be told that gynae problems in a woman my age are probably due to menopause so not covered as, and I quote, "this is a normal part of life". The only cover was for unexplained bleeding but that would be covered by the 2-week-wait system in the NHS for cancer risk so their consultants would not want to see those patients privately.

people want everything instantly

I don't think so, they want healthcare when they need it and they don't want to live with disabling pain whilst waiting for treatment or investigations. they do not want to be fobbed off by gatekeeper gps.
that's not too much to ask, is it?