To think you already need private healthcare?

[MerryMarigold]

On Tuesday Dh was in a cycling accident (someone cut in front of him on a steep downhill, he managed to break and avoid car, but came off bike at speed - luckily he was wearing a helmet). He has fractured a vertebra in his neck (c7). So, he was in hospital overnight and next day; diagnosed and given a neck brace, then came home all within 24 hours. His next appointment is in 6 WEEKS!

He was not told what he can/ can't do with the brace, how to get out of bed, whether he can shower, how he should wash his hair, whether he should be lying down or it's ok to sit. Anything he was told would have been difficult to retain anyway, having just been in a high impact accident a few hours earlier, concussed/ shocked etc. Nothing written was given to him for me/ any carer to read. I was not allowed to visit until 2.30pm which was after all the docs come round.

Yesterday he went to GP, who signed him off work for at least 6 weeks and gave him names of consultants who he can access more quickly on his work private healthcare. He is seeing one tonight, thankfully. So we should have more idea of what he is able to do or not.

I don't have private healthcare and neither do the kids, not to mention most people in the UK. If they had had this accident, what would they do?...It could be made much worse by doing things incorrectly. Then perhaps surgery needed/ long term problems come up etc. It's not a broken leg in plaster (immovable).

The NHS always seems to be great for real emergencies and life or death situations - cancer, heart attacks, serious accidents, maternity etc

But I genuinely don't remember a time when non-emergency and elective stuff was quick and efficient

this

But I genuinely don't remember a time when non-emergency and elective stuff was quick and efficient

Not the fault of the NHS. They prioritise emergency care and the most serious conditions because they no longer have the resources to efficiently treat non-emergency cases (though these also can be done with speed and efficiency, it's less likely) because of the cuts disguised as "efficiency savings" the Tories (and Lib Dems) have forced upon them.

nhs cancer survival rates are a lot worse than in other european countries...

do people remember the days of 18 month waiting lists, of 6 months for a cancer diagnosis, people being sent their follow up appointment when they'd been dead for 3 months - was not that long ago.

It got better, much better, then came PFI, then "efficiency savings" but it isn't back to the bad old days quite yet.

Dh has it because he's self-employed and can't afford time off to faff. He's got a relatively cheap policy as he can only use one hospital! We have all had it in past but it's so expensive and you still have to pay excess, doesn't cover existing conditions etc.. may get it again if our budget allows, think it comes up for renewal in the autumn.
I have had a few private procedures/consults - amazing how quick it all is tbh.

Couldn't agree with you more OP. Sorry to hear about your DP, I hope recovery time isn't too long for him.

I think the problem is there isn't enough trained doctors/nurses/consultants etc, and there are too many patients wasting their time. I've had doctors refer me to see consultants unnecessarily before, and I've been in and out in 2 minutes.

I'd love to go private, and hopefully it will be something that we can afford to do in the near future. I know a lot of people are worrying that NHS may go private for some bigger medical situations, but I honestly see this as the best way forward to cut waiting times and to be able to prioritise people in more serious need.

Also don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but.. people who cause the health conditions themselves by smoking/overeating/drinking etc (I'm not talking addicts), should have to pay for their treatment. It is costing the NHS a lot of money to treat, and is also taking doctors/nurses/consultants away from people who should be prioritised.

Oh yes, my mum
Got that letter after she'd died. I wrote a stinking letter back and got a very gravelly apology from the consultant- this was late 1999s.

In my experience over the last year, going from an acute emergency, through rehabilitation in hospital for my son, it is the aftercare that is shockingly underfunded.
He was discharged in Nov after nearly 4months in hospital, referrals for speech and language, OT and physio. Saw physio after a month at home, but just for assessment, we actually do all his physio with him (no training) speech and language we saw last month and only after he needed the assessment for his ECHP. OT we have only had the letter saying they had received his referral to them back in Nov, so, so far a 7mth wait to even have an assessment. We are now having to look at paying for a private OT.

It is all to do with funding and there is just not enough of it, and in my sons case you would think he would be a priority if i told you what he had been through!

But nolove
If there has never been a time when the NHS was good at non-essentials, how can you blame any government?

Our expectations of the NHS have grown exponentially in recent years, alongside our expectations of what the government should be providing, meaning that most people have completely lost sight of what the NHS was, and what it really should be providing. People are infantilised by the concept of it.

Example: a friend today posted on Facebook asking for tips to help with a trapped nerve because it is going to take 4-6 weeks for her to see the GP's physio.
I replied 'go and see a private physio' and she basically replied 'why should I?'

It's £45 a session for the physio I recommended. She spends more than that in a single trip to a bar. But would rather suffer for for months because you can get it for free

Look at the weightloss threads and you don't have to wait too long before someone suggests that a poster goes and sees their GP to get referred to a dietitian and gym. That's not why the NHS was set up, to save people having to pay out relatively small amounts of money to a weight watchers class when they need to lose weight

I've just started weekly CBT therapy on the NHS after being on the waiting list for 16 months. And I had to be referred by my psychiatrist for that, it isn't available for people who aren't involved with CMHT services. Still a lot of people claim that MH services are non existent on the NHS, which isn't true in my case, but they only refer the most severe cases. I wouldn't have wanted to go private though, my therapist does private therapy for £100 a session which just isn't affordable.

Some rose tinted thinking going on here, I had my thyroid removed 11 years ago (labour govt) the waiting time just for an ultrasound was 12 weeks min, I went private & had it done the next day. Last year I needed an MRI, it was done within 10 days on the NHS ( faster than I could get it privately)

sparechange I don't know enough about the history of the NHS at treating such conditions but it improved hugely from 1997-2010. The Labour government certainly made some significant mistakes (such as PFIs) but on the whole everything vastly improved and satisfaction was at record levels. It's the coalition and subsequent Conservative governments which have caused so many of the issues the NHS now has and is privatising it by stealth.

Your friend is entitled to free healthcare so I can't see anything wrong with what she's said. She pays taxes and it's perfectly within reason to expect not to have to pay to have any treatment done privately. Her money is her own business and I can well understand she'd want to use what she's earnt to enjoy herself in a pub/bar.

It's exactly that attitude "I've paid my taxes so I'll take what's free and that absolves me of any personal responsibilities towards my health so I can piss up my money in a bar"

It's totally bizarre. Prioritising nights out over being pain free.

It's a bit like where I grew up where everyone would be encouraged to 'get your name down for a council house' as soon as you turned 18.
Didn't matter if you needed one or not. Get your name down! It's free!
Like people who queue up in the supermarket for those little samples whether they like the food or not. Because it's free and that's more important than anything else.

It's totally bizarre. Prioritising nights out over being pain free.

That's not what it's doing at all. She's entitled to her treatment. There's no reason she should have to pay for it. She wants to enjoy a night out as the vast majority of people do. Getting the treatment you're entitled to is in no way "absolving yourself of personal responsibilities towards your health".

If you have the thousands a year private health insurance costs, it's worth thinking about instead saving the money and being willing to pay as a one-off for private healthcare should the need arise. I don't think I could afford (good) insurance, but twice I've paid £200-£400 for private treatment to avoid a wait/having to convince someone it was necessary for the NHS to pay for, and been very glad to do so. I have also paid for various vaccinations not offered by the NHS, for physiotherapy and for counselling. It's possible to lose out compared with top health insurance (eg you're still stuffed if you need one of the eye-wateringly expensive cancer drugs the NHS doesn't fund) but it's a good alternative to cheaper insurances that wouldn't cover that kind of thing anyway.

The problem with no getting healthcare & paying yourself is that costs can quickly spiral, I frequently have to have quite a few blood tests, I think one of them costs about £500, they are not all that expensive but lots are very pricey. The same for an MRI, they can be a couple of thousand.

You don't actually get any better doctors/treatment, it's just the time you're saving by having private healthcare

You get to choose your doctor and you only see the consultant. You don't see his stand in or his registrar or the locum, you see the person you have chosen which means that you have continuity of care from the most experienced person. They don't need to read your notes each time and you don't have to explain yet again what the problem is. You also generally have much greater choice in medicine. There are several cancer drugs for example which are routine treatments privately and almost impossible to get on the NHS.

We have always had private health care, it has always been a priority for our family. In general it's like night and day for non emergency care. Firstly you can generally see someone the same day or at least the next day. I'll give some examples.

A few years ago I had a breast lump. I discovered it at 11pm, I saw my GP at 11am the next morning, I had a mammogram and ultra sound at 4pm that afternoon and by 6pm I knew it nothing to worry about.

DH had a perforated disc in his back. He saw the consultant on the Tuesday evening, he had a pain relieving epidural on Wednesday morning, a follow up the next week and a further follow up 4 weeks later. It didn't help and he needed surgery which was booked in there and then at a time to suit him and he hasn't had a moment's problem since then.

Eldest son had a milk allergy as a baby, GP was useless just said he was unsettled, took him to see a paediatrician who changed milk immediately, gave him 3 different anti-biotics for infected excema, called me from his holiday to follow up and saw him again as soon as he got back.

I've hurt my back. I called my insurance company yesterday and I have unlimited physio starting tomorrow covered by them.

NHS can be good but day to day for routine stuff it's generally time consuming, inefficient and disjointed. Where I can be in and out of a private appointment in less than half an hour I need to give half a day for an NHS appointment as no single person deals with a full appointment, first you see one person then sit in the waiting room and see another, and they then send you to bloods and then you come back and wait and then you see the doctor again and then you wait a bit more and before you know it you've wasted 3 hours

She is in pain for 4-6 weeks! She can make it go away by spending a small amount of money that she has readily available!

That's like refusing to buy any food because you know you'll get a free meal in 3 days time. It's totally illogical unless you have a very very strange attitude to your civic entitlement

Question - you say they didn't tell him but did he or you ask what he could/couldn't do? Is it possible that they did tell him but he doesn't remember because he was concussed?

YANBU at all. We had a tragic birth outcome on the NHS a few months ago, and while I was initially of the view that individual people we met were v dedicated (if overworked) the investigation has shown that it could have quite easily have been avoided if they had been thorough. Now pregnant again and we're paying through the nose to go private just because we've lost trust in the system's ability to care for us and manage outcomes. I think NHS is v good at handling extreme emergencies, but situations where overall care is to be managed, or where some minor interventions could dramatically improve the quality of someone's life are where it fails abominably. (N/c because I have other posts on this and don't want Daily Fail scum making me into a story)

I'm torn. I got elective surgery fairly quickly but it did turn into an emergency before the surgery. I've had sciatica for years and years and nobody suggested an MRI. I got around it by my NHS physio referring me
4.5hrs of spinal surgery later, I'm incredibly grateful for the care I got in there and that they stopped me becoming paralysed on incontinent. But there's no follow up, no physio etc

Sys is 100% correct. You see the same consultant who is a specialist, not the locum, the junior, or who ever happens to be on shift!

People talk about funding the NHS with more taxes but some on this thread clearly don't mean out of their pocket. Their money is for THEM. Others can pay for their treatment.

A large % of people are not net contributors anyway but this 'I have paid my taxes so I will have it free just annoys me intensely'

I do have PM with my company. I have rarely used it but its there. The NHS needs to be radically reformed. We need to give people personal responsibility for themselves and what they do with their bodies. If that means a small amount to be paid to see a GP then so be it.

Not quite 100% correct as they ascribed "he" to the consultant when talking generally.

Private healthcare would also, as I said, palm you off onto the NHS if things became too complicated, if they made a mistake or if you needed emergency treatment whilst under their care.

If that means a small amount to be paid to see a GP then so be it.

This absolutely must not happen.

Its rather like all those all you can eat buffets especially abroad. It makes me feel sick to see the mounds of food people pile onto their plate just because its included in the price. Whether its all eaten is another question!

Its what I keep spouting about - get personal responsibility back and then perhaps things will improve.

Why no payment to see a GP?

Why does it have to be free all of the time regardless. The NHS is a bloated monster and other systems around the world work better.