To think that 3 adults should be able to work out 17 divided by 3 without the need for a calculator?

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I run a local board games group.

Behind me three grown men were trying to work out this very difficult sum wondering what the answer was, one of them said they would get their phone out to us the calculator at which point I interjected and told them the answer.

These men are 25+!

Id expect a 6 year old to be able to do this... In their head!

I've got dyscalcula and couldn't do it

Division with remainders is Year 2. The decimal comes in a couple of years later.

I would be shocked to be honest if at least one of them couldn't have worked it out. Yes, maybe one of them could have something like dyscalculia but surely not all of them.

It is basic maths. DS(12) was taught this in primary school. They are also taught various methods how to do division which,in theory, should help most children understand the concept of basic division and remainders.

As part of the recruitment process at DH's firm applicants have to take basic numeracy and literacy tests before they get to interview stage. Over 80% of the applicants fail these tests and the majority of applicants are graduates.

YANBU about the adults OP (although maybe YABU about the hypothetical 6 year old!). I will never understand why it is culturally acceptable in this country to be functionally innumerate.

I couldn't do it.
I am not an idiot.

I bet I can do lots of things you can't do OP
I wouldn't start a thread about them.

Those people who don't know how do do some bits of basic maths (because they will be able to do lots of other bits) didn't sit down one day and declare 'NO WAY am I going to learn division, that is for fools!'

Something happened at some stage in their education.

My maths is pretty bad. I get by but that simple sum would worry me.
Looking back on my maths education I am not surprised.

It's not untrue to say some people are thick, just like some people are very intelligent

Some people are less intelligent than others, yes. But you're concluding that these three people are 'thickos' based on whether they can divide 17/3. Does that seem rational? I know someone with multiple degrees, who does very fancy things with nuclear physics and is a well-respected and extensively published author in his field. His dishwasher is a mystery to him and he doesn't drive because he's incapable of not reversing into things when parking. Does his inability to manage a domestic appliance (he broke 3 before his DW banned him from going near them) and reverse park, negate the amazing academic work that he's done? You can't judge someone solely on their ability to do one thing.

Come on folks! This is indeed basic numeracy; we all need to be able to do this. no argument

We all should be able to do it, but not all of us can. I can't - what do you want me to do? Take lessons? I did. Take extra classes as an adult? I did. Try and learn it by rote? I tried. Nothing worked. Please don't make it sound as if it's just a bit of extra effort that's required, because for some people it really isn't. Nothing would please me more than being good at mental arithmetic, but I am not. There are, on the other hand, lots of things that I am good at. I get through life by using a calculator.

coffee
Because a lot of what you do at gcse isn't functional maths.

Functional.maths is done at primary and then y7-9. If you then spend gcse and a level using your phone calculator for things then you're not using the knowledge. And as with a lot of knowledge, use it or lose it.

I did really well at gcse science and was asked on a cover lesson if I could help them do a chemistry equation. I couldn't because I'd not used that knowledge since I sat my gcse.

Phone calculators, not comparing tariffs for things, not doing a set budget, not using recipes and using ratios to make more/less etc all probably make a difference.

I agree innumeracy is a problem, but can see how people get there.

I would easily come up with 5 and a bit each but the precise answer would require some thought.

Late 30s. I had to have a think.

I love the fact that the OP (Binary) can divide by three. arf

Having seen many people struggle with percentages in a real life situation, I totally believe that many people would struggle with such basic maths as this example. It constantly amazes me.

As part of the recruitment process at DH's firm applicants have to take basic numeracy and literacy tests before they get to interview stage. Over 80% of the applicants fail these tests and the majority of applicants are graduates.

Trainee teachers ow have to take basic numeracy and literacy tests before they train, they are allowed 3 attempts.

It used to be that you had unlimited attempts and had to pass before the end of your teacher training, some people took the test 10+ times, I have come across one who took it 17 times.

There are two issues here, one is not being able to do it, and the other is not knowing what you are expected to do. If you have dyscalcula you may not be able to do it in your head but you should know what is expected ie you should be able to get 17 counters and 'share' them out between three people. You may need someone else to count the initial 17 but the 'sharing'part shuld not be an issue.

There is an acceptance of not being numerate in this country, there is also the issue of teaching. If a teacher knows a method but doesn't actually understand the process behind it the only thing they can teach is the method.

In the 1970s some research was done in Brazil, children who came from poor backgrounds so had to work were doing very badly in school, in things like maths, but at the same time could run a food stall, add up what someone had bought (food plus drink etc) take the money and give the right change.

They thought they couldn't do maths but in day to day life were using it, the research resulted in changes to the teaching of maths in Brazil.

But what's to be gained from patting ourselves on the back thinking at least I know how to do it unlike those idiots?

You do realise there is a whole board called on MN called Pedants Corner where some posters take the piss out of those of us who have problems with Spelling and Grammar?

To feel superior to people with these problems seems ok on MN!

I was in a shop the other day and there was at least 50 grown adults in there who couldn't use sign language!
Seriously, adults who didn't know how to communicate in an established British language used by tens of thousands of people in this country.
I mean, how thick does someone have to be to not know how do that?

Then there was the time that I came across some friends trying to put a shelf up. They were hopeless! They were all in their 30s and not one of them knew how to do it without googling.
I despair.

Maybe they were n't taught maths properly at school as I was n't

But to be fair in this scenario they didn't need to know the precise answer, they just needed to know how many counters they would each have.

Also as a number of other people have pointed out, even if they could not work it out in their heads, they could have dealt out the counters like you would a deck of cards and put the remaining counters to one side.

It's basic numeracy. People too easily give in when faced with anything like this because "they can't do Maths". There should be space made in the curriculum for numeracy for every day - percentages, division, etc. There's a lot of information on food packaging that needs to be reinterpreted. The amount of salt in Marmite per 100g is very high, but (those of us who eat it) don't have it in such large amounts. How much is one can of baked beans when you've bought a 4 pack for £1.10? For every day maths, estimating is essential. Had the adults behind the OP been dividing a café bill of £17 for three sandwiches between them, it would be enough to know that it's around £6 each and the change can be given as a tip.

From someone who teaches adults this is the very type of comment we struggle against and why learners won't come through our doors to get the help they need. You do realise that all people have different stories and backgrounds? Some people didn't finish education had to help at home, had to care for siblings or parents. Some people Just struggle with traditional schooling. With a bit of care and attention at a later date adults can get the help they need.

Maisy - I am completely out of touch with the current GCSE syllabus - is there no non-calculator paper any more? That seems like a real failure in the system!

I don't doubt that some people have been let down by the education system (N.B. I do mean the system, I'm not teacher-bashing) but what gets to me is how normalised it is that many, many adults - many more than can be explained by dyscalculia - have such a poor appreciation of number. It does everyone a disservice, in my opinion.

I think it's quite quick to work out. First dividing 15 by 3 is 5 each. Then dividing 2 by three. If you can't divide two by three think of 1 divided by three which is 0.33333 and then double it. 0.66666. Add the 5 on and it's 5.666666. I was thinking it was money though, if it's games pieces, it's even easier five each with two left over.

Yanbu

I would have thought one of them could have done it. It's the type of sum that you could easily envisage needing in day to day life.

I didn't read the OPs OO as unpleasant or sneery - I read it as though she was surprised ...which I would have been too.

senua I don't divide by 3. I divide by 11.

Seriously, adults who didn't know how to communicate in an established British language used by tens of thousands of people in this country.

Have you seen the Star Wars t shirt on this theme?

That's what I would have done ineed, no need for division and fractions, just give one each until there weren't enough left to go round.

I have a PhD which included quite a lot of mathematics

I still can't remember all the the times table (7 and 8 in particular and nothing above 12). This makes mental arithmetic a bit difficult for me but in addition I struggle to keep numbers in my head.
Even on this problem, my thought process was
"17 is made up of 3x5 with 1 left over.which gives 5 and a third (0.3333333 etc) each. Of course I know it is 2 left over but in my head I just saw it as one. I even did it a couple of times to be sure!!!!!.
I have an A level in maths and did a science degree. I am still very bad at mental arithmetic.