AIBU to think that the UK cannot afford farmers?

[purpleleotard]

Given that for some farmers on marginal land earn 80% of their income from subsidies.
Presumably the government, of any colour, will be looking at the cost of these subsidies when we exit the EU.
Will the population be expected to pick up the exorbitant cost.
Some 'farmers' are controlling huge areas of land for their own enjoyment at the cost to the public purse.
I am especially exercised by farmers in mountain areas like Snowdonia who keep the hills bare of the natural trees by running large numbers of sheep, when more sheep equals more subsidy.

More like we can't afford to actually farm in the UK op. We are veg and because of this don't get a huge sub, and the prices are the same in 2017 as 30 years ago if not in some cases slightly less. The costs of course are significantly more as is the paperwork and regulations that must be adhered to. To illustrate for a tonne of

maincrop potatoes we will get around £100-180 perhaps £200 in a good year the supermarket will sell that tonne for £1500. Same for parsnips. 2 carrots in our local garage cost 89p we would get about 8p for those. Cauliflower in M&S were £1.09 we get £2.50 for 6. Some farms do get a huge sub but the majority work our arses off for very little just to keep our heads above water and would rather get none and be paid a fair price for our produce

riversrunwoodville
How do 'some farms get a huge sub'?

There is a big debate to be had about the use of subsidies to support the environment. However, my view is we should support animal welfare standards, and subsidize if necessary. For crops, we should trade much more with the 3rd world and embrace GM.
Much of Snowdonia, the Lake District and Scotland was far more forest covered before sheep farming. Stopping sheep farming will bring a return of scrub and woodland (if that is what is wanted)

One of the most stupid posts I have ever seen. YABtotallyfuckingU. Who keeps the countryside looking like it does so townies can pop down to see it for a week in the summer. As for Snowdonia. Jesus you are thick

So, purpleleotard, are you going to come back to this thread?

What prompted you to start it, the week before an election?

Can I ask why a leave vote was so popular in agricultural areas?

Or was this a difference between farm owners / tenants and agricultural workers?

Though all the Leave hoardings I saw last year were on farmer's land (in fields), and after the vote the radio interviews I heard were with farmers extremely worried about potential loss of seasonal labour from the EU. I remember a celery farmer in Lincs thinking he would actually need to change crops or go out of production. A theme now discussed on the Archers.

I think it's really important to leave the EU so that there are fewer farm subsidies, so more farmers go bankrupt before they can afford to get planning permission to build houses on their land. This will enable big investment companies owned by people retiring from the banking industry to buy the land increase its value more than 60 times by getting planning permission, then sell it to development and house building companies whom stock market investors can use to both launder and maximise their earnings.

I would love to know where the OP lives , chances are the area where your house stands was once covered in natural trees . Perhaps you could knock your house down and plant a selection of native species if you are so concerned about the lovely trees ?

Can I ask why a leave vote was so popular in agricultural areas?

I'm not sure! We voted to stay in. I think that farmers are inherently conservative, and independent, used to going by their own rules. Being 'dictated to by Europe' doesn't necessarily go down well (talk about biting the hand that feeds you!). Plus I think there were assurances from the brexit side that farm subsidies would continue post brexit. My parents, who were in the generation that voted to go in, in the first place, voted out last year, and stand by their decision I think immigration issues played a part too.

I'm really not sure about the leave voters, either. I remember us having a big discussion about it around the table with fellow farmers, and all of us farmers in the East seemed in agreement to remain. There were a few from the West who were planning to vote leave. I'm not sure if location made a difference, but we've only ever farmed in the East, so I'm not sure.

Op are you a little bit thick you do realise that farming is sometimes the only thing farmers know especially people like my 2 uncles if they lost their farms they would lose their homes to so not only do you want to do away with someone's livelyhood you also want to make them homeless to boot how kind of you. Farmers work a damn sight harder than you they don't get holidays or pensions there are no days off one of my uncle's worked his farm right up until the day he died at the age of 84. Unless your willing to try and retrain men and women in their 40's and 50's and older then you idea is completely stupid and I think you need to get back in your box.

Also I think Tate and Lyle are one of the biggest beneficiaries of the CAP , along with other large companies like Arla ?

There's a fantastic initiative called open farm Sunday:

farmsunday.org

Where lots of farms open up their doors to the public so you can learn about farming. Usually a really interesting day!

11th June 2017 :)

To be fair, there are a handful of slipper farmers that have profited massively from gaming the subsidies system - Frank Smart in Aberdeenshire for instance - see here.

Looking at the list of top subsidy recipients, I guess that Brexiteer James Dyson will be happy to forego his company's annual £1.5 million in payments?

Thanks, Gin and DairyFarmer.

I get the 'independence' feeeling, and listened to a debate about EU quotas and acreage of crops, but as DEFRA seemed very assertive that this is in any case beneficial because diversity is better for the environment and in the end also better for productivity, it seemed that Defra would impose this with or without the EU.

So basically farmers will be queuing alongside the NHS for the £350m ? Oh, and jostling with the Universities for their research grants. Which go some way towards supporting innovation and productivity in agriculture.

Talk about eating your seed potatoes!

gutrotwein as pp have said if we get a fair price for our produce instead of the peanuts currently being paid maybe we will be able to survive without subsidies. Who knows what will happen post Brexit- I certainly don't think any on our farm 'expect' to be subsidised.

Surely a debate / discussion about the way subsidies operate cannot be off the table. Especially in the light of the information posters have given about the price they get for spuds and cauliflower, for example.

Whichever way it washes out, our farming industry needs all the support it can get to thrive, and never more so than now.

A debate isn't out of the question at all, but the OP has gone about it in completely the wrong way, if that was the intention of this thread. You're never going to get people willing to spend time giving their experiences if you start the debate off by basically saying we're a waste of space.

I think it just adds to the ongoing debate of fair prices for farmers, though. This always comes up whenever we are approached by property developers to sell our land. It is hard to try and find a reason to say no, when it's the difference of either selling land for a million pounds an acre, or continue to farm that land and make a loss every year (even with the subsidies). We'd all love to keep fields as fields, but until people are willing to spend more on good, British food, we're never going to make enough money.

But in many cases the British shopper is paying a fair price or would be if prices weren't artificially controlled.

The virtual monopoly of the supermarkets is a big issue with their stranglehold on farmers.

We need to radically rethink how we farm, supply and retail food in this country as well as what we eat.

"The virtual monopoly of the supermarkets is a big issue with their stranglehold on farmers."

This.

As illustrated by Riversrun's figures above:
"for a tonne of maincrop potatoes we will get around £100-180 perhaps £200 in a good year the supermarket will sell that tonne for £1500. Same for parsnips. 2 carrots in our local garage cost 89p we would get about 8p for those."

Has OP been on the blue smarties? There are no words for the ignorance and stupiditity. Maybe OP will be happy to pay for the "real" cost of the food they eat if there were no subsidies. YABFU!!!

One thing i want to add, is that I don't believe we have a right to farm. Just because we are born to it, inherit a farm, work long hours, doesn't mean we can carry on doing it, 'because we don't know anything else'. We have a responsibility to be business like, to aim to be profitable, and also be ethical in regard to animal welfare, and things like using antibiotics responsibly and protecting the environment. Farmers should also aim to plan for succession and retirement.

It is a way of life, but it's not a prison sentence. There are no prizes for dying with your boots on!

Thanks for the open farm link Ety. We've pencilled in a farm visit this month now .

meg it's usually a really interesting day out! Obviously it varies masses how much they set up, who you talk to etc but we've always had a lovely time :)

Well those of us who voted stay did warn about this...