AIBU to think that the UK cannot afford farmers?

[purpleleotard]

Given that for some farmers on marginal land earn 80% of their income from subsidies.
Presumably the government, of any colour, will be looking at the cost of these subsidies when we exit the EU.
Will the population be expected to pick up the exorbitant cost.
Some 'farmers' are controlling huge areas of land for their own enjoyment at the cost to the public purse.
I am especially exercised by farmers in mountain areas like Snowdonia who keep the hills bare of the natural trees by running large numbers of sheep, when more sheep equals more subsidy.

It's actually quite a real question even if it does pee farmers off.

Truth is the older generation of farmers did well but this lot not so much. Definitely asset rich, cash poor.

Problem is farmers get such a shit price for their produce anyway that without subsidies they'd mostly just shut anyway.

All farms round us have either massively expanded in order to keep up and actually try and make some money..or they've finished. Small farms are becoming near extinct without a niche or extra income.

We actually pay more for our food/milk and buy direct from the farm so they can dictate their own price. Obv though supermarkets drive prices down and not everyone can (geographically or affordably) do this.

Typical ignorant labour supporter! I'm a farmers daughter! We've owned and farmed our land for generations. Piss off!!!

TBH you farmers seem to think everyone else should understand your predicaments.
Although we have had a referendum, most of us 'townies' (or indeed, anyone who isn't a farmer) don't understand how EU subsidies work, or what the effect of Brexit will be.
I thin that is actually what the OP wanted to find out about, but maybe choses the wrong words in her post. I don't think she deserved the 'I'm not going to answer / debate that' reply. If she doesn't understand (as most of us don't - then explain what you experience and your hopes and fears of Brexit.
We'd be really interested to know.

Piss off!!!

Surely you mean 'get orf'

Maybe OP could look at suicide rates of smaller farmers? Fancy a dig into mental health issues when you're being denied a proper market?

Or levels of rural poverty for workers on big farms and farmers on small farms. At a sister CAB they had so many issues with the latter not getting subsidies because they have literacy issues, no access to Internet etc. And workers likewise with advice and recourse on employment issues.

Way to really attack those already stranded.

The OP's reference to the countryside is walking through Snowdonia... Where is OP? We genuinely would like to know your concerns - if you have the energy help on good reforms! But this looks so, so ignorant, generalist and a real class issue.

But I'd love to speak to OP if they want to clarify?

Sorry - didn't edit that before posting!!

We do actually need to have a sensible national conversation about all this as we leave the EU. The OP is clearly not the best person to be framing the discussion, but it's one we need to have: how important is it to us to keep a British farming industry and what will we need to do?

OP is repeating what much of the population is led to believe - farmers get exorbitant subsidies from Brussels.
Tell us how it is - telling someone to piss off doesn't educate us.

Oh how would you like to research big investors putting together mega farms? Don't worry about buying British milk! The Chinese are investing so heavily into dairy factory farms you won't be able to buy it - they're buying up British milk to dry up, and sell as baby formula powder

Look it up! So don't you worry about the milk issue. Smaller farmers give up, these "not profitable" farms get bought up at an undervalue by investors to amalgamate into mega farms. With no farmers - just farm managers! Massive factory farms won't be targeting you when they sell that milk :)

missshittybennett I agree. I know nothing about farming subsidies, yet voted an EU referendum.
I wondered why some farmers voted leave, if we're led to believe subsidies are so good?

This is really not a clear cut issue. You can't treat farming like any other industry, farming provides more than just food, farming has shaped our landscape and biodiversity for thousands of years. Some habitats would not exist without grazing, and these habitats often contain high levels of biodiversity, but some land is overgrazed and has very low biodiversity. Some farming methods protect soils and river catchments, some causes erosion and worsens flooding. Some farming provides high quality landscapes for the public to enjoy, some methods don't. Agriculture was originally at the core of the EU, and support for farmers is now much more focused on environmental improvements. It's far from perfect but I sincerely hope that support for farming continues once we've left Europe.

And it's not an organic/vegan issue before we get any of that - my (vegan!) cousins are working closely with their local farmers to produce more organic and where possible vegan produce. They're also being welcomed to "inspect" (visit) as and when they want to really get to know how those farms work. Also helps build a community and the kids love it :)

We've owned and farmed our land for generations. Piss off!!!

I have to say, I don't think that's the way to get sympathy and understanding of farming. It's up to us to engage with the consumer, not alienate them. The op has a limited understanding, but it's a complex industry. Much like finance in London, which I have no idea about. I'd wouldn't be impressed to be told to piss off if i asked a question about it.

explain what you experience and your hopes and fears of Brexit.

It's very much an unknown but the idea of trying to compete with, and export to Europe is very concerning. In the short term the effect on the exchange rate has been beneficial for our exports but that isn't the whole story. So many inputs (animal feed, fertilisers etc) are imported, that our cost of production is going to rise with a weaker pound. It's scary, in lots of ways. The company we sell milk to is based in Germany, how will that affect us? Who knows?

Is it really notmyrealname? That's interesting. I knew the Chinese were big on Irish milk for formula, but not ours too.

Yup - it's one of their big investments into the UK :) British farming could be entirely exported under the guise of "heritage" and good standards etc. But only sold to top-paying consumers.

Oh dear god
And I don't believe in any god
OP have a look at the UK on google earth
Compare the amount of green to grey.
I am far too annoyed to even enter the argument about the cost of importing food once we leave the EU

Thank you dairyfarmerswife for such a measured answer.
Are your fertilisers, animal feed etc coming from within the EU?

Looks like you'll be hoping that we end up with a single market in agriculture at least!
Good luck

The company we sell milk to is based in Germany Is that Muller Wiseman. My dad knew the Wiseman family personally.

Also on the waterways point - farmer can drain fields but it's bloody expensive and no small farmers can afford it. So no new drainage has been done probably since the 1950s.

Now main waterways - rivers - are controlled by the river boards (or whatever they call them now). Farmers are heavily regulated on it.

This is why farmers get angry when floods happen in a big way. Often it's in areas where the relevant gov dept has dictated a certain course of action about river banks and direction. This often happens against farmers' observations about water activity in the area. But then the gov is really slow to help clear flooding - usually farmers (if they have diggers) just get on with reconstruction themselves, against the gov's wishes. Later the gov usually says "I guess it worked out"

Nb - farmers where cousins live, they raised issue with bad advice from gov on rivers. What happened? The farmers were stopped from acting, on threat of fines they wouldn't be able to pay. And then...slightly above average rainflow... Under a mile down river the banks burst and basically ruin a set of new builds (affordable housing) in a local village

I doubt that farmers will receive any subsidies.

It's perfectly clear once the Tories get a trade deal, we'll be importing cheap food packed full of hormones and pesticides from South America and US.

Notmerealname
Sadly, I wasn't even aware that farmers are angry when floods happen, even though I live in a rural area. I was aware that motorists and house owners were pretty pissed off.

I read the papers and I listen to the news...

...I think maybe farmers should get a louder voice.

Jeez op, we've got to eat!

Start a thread debating the overhaul of farming subsidies or one about how to ethically produce more food in the UK to help increase self-sufficiency and I'm sure you'll get more takers. And maybe, you know, ease your brain out of reverse into first gear before you start :)

YABU. Subsidies are paid for a variety of reasons, including conteolling what foods/goods farmers produce. Hopefully with Brexit, we will have to rely more on British farmers rather than cheap imports , resulting in farmers actually being able to live without being subsidised. We get paid subsidies for putting some of our land over to forestry, others get subs for wildlife friendly farming methods. It isn't a case of money for nothing. Controlling land for our own enjoyment- what would you suggest the land be used for? And seeing as we own it do you propose buying it from us or a massive landgrab?

katsnmouse
Would you expect subsidies for forestry/wildlife friendly farms, etc, from the British government post-Brexit, or are you expecting a life without subsidy?

Honestly sometimes it seems like a land grab - the inconvenient poor should stop operating in rural areas. It ruins the Monbiots' very particular enjoyment of the land. Don't listen to other people, they're simply uneducated chavs. Except we call them anything but chavs, to be politically correct, but we hate them all the same

If it were a genuine concern about subsidies why didn't OP mention the big factory farms?