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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that the UK cannot afford farmers?

175 replies

purpleleotard · 01/06/2017 18:31

Given that for some farmers on marginal land earn 80% of their income from subsidies.
Presumably the government, of any colour, will be looking at the cost of these subsidies when we exit the EU.
Will the population be expected to pick up the exorbitant cost.
Some 'farmers' are controlling huge areas of land for their own enjoyment at the cost to the public purse.
I am especially exercised by farmers in mountain areas like Snowdonia who keep the hills bare of the natural trees by running large numbers of sheep, when more sheep equals more subsidy.

OP posts:
Silvertap · 01/06/2017 21:06

We're asset rich but cash poor was my mums favourite saying when I wanted something and we couldn't afford it.

Farming is a huge industry. There is big agribusiness which is on a completely different scale to a small mountain farm. An arable chap who inherited two thousand acres will earn a pretty penny compared to the chap on an 800acre fbt. Unfortunately it's the latter of those two that will lose the most when subsidies go.

Around here most farmers I know have some form of other income - a lot of property, solar panels and a lot of those wind turbines you see will be paying Farmers a fairly hefty rent.

The amount of rollover money in the industry is ridiculous.

My farm would break even with no subsidy. It is something I'm actively planning for by investing elsewhere. I will go out there and say that it's wrong people go to food banks in this country when I get a subsidy cheque.

derxa · 01/06/2017 21:08

Fuzzy I'm a small scale sheep farmer and not typical since I'm not totally dependent financially on the farm.
Dairy farming is very precarious. A cousin of mine sold up because it was just not sustainable any more. Sadly he died this year. I'm sure the worry didn't help. They've got money from the sale of the land but it's the end of a way of life. You have to be big scale to survive.

TestTubeTeen · 01/06/2017 21:13

LOL "I am especially exercised by farmers in mountain areas like Snowdonia who keep the hills bare of the natural trees by running large numbers of sheep, "

Happy that a patch of Green and Pleasant is bare of trees for your house, kids school, supermarket (where you go to buy lamb) and leisure centre? Think what it would look like as the lovely ancient woodland it once was!

Unless of course you live off grid in a tree house, in which case, do continue with your POV, OP.

Chattymummyhere · 01/06/2017 21:17

We all need to be supporting our farmers. They do an amazing job 24/7. We cannot rely on imported food and whatever standards that country has.

The problems are us the people wanting everything dirt cheap do you really think 4pints of milk really cost £1?

I will always buy my meat from a butcher and my potatoes and other veg from the local farmer who parks up in for local layby on a Saturday selling his crop and I go to the other local farm for pyo and buy there picked produce.

BrassicaBabe · 01/06/2017 21:29

"Cheap Eastern European labour"?! Ha! Thankfully these fine people are covered by the same laws of the land as the rest of us. They are paid the same as anyone else from the UK!

Such daftness in this post n

dairyfarmerswife · 01/06/2017 21:30

Is it very hard as a farmer to avoid being asset rich but cash poor?

The thing is, we are constantly reinvesting in our asset. In good years we could spend more cash on personal things I suppose, but we in those years we need to be able to consolidate and improve our business. In bad years we spend as little as possible on the business and ourselves, just to keep going.

Re other income, we can't all diversify - there are only so many b&b or clamping or other tourist attractions an area will support, and not all farms lend themselves to it. A lot of farmers have been aided by renewable energy - wind turbines or solar panels, but these don't always get approval because of the perceived blight on the countryside.

It is reassuring to see that there is a lot of support for farmers here though - thanks!

DJBaggySmalls · 01/06/2017 21:31

The topsoil on mountains is often too thin to support them, but it can support a layer of poor quality, tough grass. Hence the sheep.

GuinefortGrey · 01/06/2017 21:37

My poor (literally!) p-i-l are both asset and cash poor. They are tenant farmers and absolutely destitute and physically broken BUT farming is their life and their animals and quality of meat they produce means everything to them. They operate under the highest welfare standards which does not come cheap (they go without themselves to feed the cows the best quality feed and pay the vets bills to keep them happy and healthy).
The beef they produce has a cult following locally and is out of this world in terms of taste and texture but who knows how long they can continue like this even with any subsidies they are receiving. They already have debts in the 0000s. I'm sure all their loyal supporters and customers would much prefer to buy hormone-riddled-grazed-on-destroyed rain forest-imported-from-Brazil-beef instead Confused

MissShittyBennet · 01/06/2017 21:43

What's daft was your failure to understand it brassica. You lifted that from a post about how British people won't do that work, and wouldn't even pre 2004, and how the wages would need to be higher to motivate that. But EEs do, so obviously they're cheaper! It's not about the laws of the land, it's about the legal minimum not being sufficient incentive.

WellErrr · 01/06/2017 21:52

Some 'farmers' are controlling huge areas of land for their own enjoyment at the cost to the public purse.
I am especially exercised by farmers in mountain areas like Snowdonia who keep the hills bare of the natural trees by running large numbers of sheep, when more sheep equals more subsidy

😂😂😂😂 thanks! Needed a laugh!

I came here ready for debate, but seeing as you can't argue with stupid I'll be off.

But OP - have you heard of Glastir? Do google it.

Pardonwhat · 01/06/2017 21:54

Wow Hmm

CleopatraTheCatLover · 01/06/2017 21:59

Yabvvvvu, if anything we need more farmers.
Massive thanks to all farmers on the thread!

Polkadotties · 01/06/2017 21:59

OP must be a townie Hmm

Notmyrealname85 · 01/06/2017 22:01

OP coooool so what we'll do is import produce? So you see real, fundamental problems with British farming - and want to export these inconveniences to some poor, faraway country so you don't have to deal with any conscience pangs? How very privileged of you!

This is my take as a massive leftie, seeing as you're probably George Monbiot.... It is genuinely meant to be helpful!

Cutting back on farming in Britain will lead to lower food standards. Lower health and safety standards and lower production standards (you want US meat pumped full of stuff? With Trump dictating what can go in it?). Research food standards and see in the UK why the government is so able to dictate to farmers what to use in their practises - there's too little research and farmers hate it. Eg sheep dip, cow vacs and pesticides - a generation ago they were told what to use, without proper testing. Exposure led to many suffering side effects worse than some industrial accidents. Yet still research and accountability is low. Help keep the government accountable! To farmers and consumers!

It will lead to terrible animal treatment. If the subsidies go - fine by me, I can afford it. But prices for British produce will go up for the consumer - including for meat and dairy. The cheapest markets are non-EU. And those closest to home around Europe are not held to our standards. Not raising the animals, handling them or slaughtering them. Brits won't buy EU produce as it'll be as pricey as British produce, knowing they can keep prices up for people to buy decently made produce. So more animals will go through the tougher systems. Either risky near-Europe farms, or factory farming in the US. An issue you could instead help with- improve UK slaughterhouse standards. Why do we need only a few mega ones not close to farms? A lot of the smaller, local ones were much better for the animals, causing less distress in transport. Accountability is no more improved - why? Investigate and help!

Perhaps the most sensitive issue is this: you're unwittingly massively screwing over a foreign workforce. Imports means screwing over workers' rights - let's make any crop workers who've come to Britain move back, they'll be on lower wages in their own countries and deny them the right to come to the UK while we're doing a hard Brexit? Maybe they'll have even fewer workers' rights there. Great idea for a mass exodus of workers you don't like the idea of? Here's a different issue to focus on: improving farming workers' rights in Britain. Go undercover with the crop workers and find out what issues they face - do they have proper access to or infrastructure (children in good schools etc)? How is their job security, can they report issues like whistleblowers can (without fear of reprisal)? Do some research and help!

Why are you focused on sheep in particular? This is my tip for you here: read Private Eye. Compare and contrast the subsidies sheep farmers get, with crop farmers who farm on a mega scale (with farm managers, thousands of very very profitable and valuable acres). Not all crop farmers are like this - but a really horrid trend is millionaire farmers (the daily mail owners!) getting subsidies for owning land and doing sweet FA with it. They hobby farm on a massive scale and take in cash for nothing, for crops that we don't need or that smaller farmers should be able to produce but can't compete with the efficiency. It's a post-capitalist horror, and pushes out any smaller party competition. On the other hand, sheep and dairy farmers just need to be able sell their produce for a decent price - have you seen the price fixing scandals by tesco et al? It's a case of being undercut to extremes, and then being told to be grateful for a subsidy when they'd rather just get the fair market price. Research how mega supermarkets are screwing smaller farms - these are the farms that are much more likely to operate at higher standards. Why? Because for smaller farmers it's personal and they take pride in their community. They have reputations to uphold.

Separately... I'm so confused and almost delighted by your comment about sheep on the hills! What did you think those hills looked like before farming? Woodland simply doesn't grow at that level! We had a year of not keeping up with our community garden and it was such a thicket, it wasn't even possible to walk through with all the brambles. So do you want national parks and rural areas to be re-wilded? Not accessible to those who benefit from visiting it now? Ok a lot of middle class lot go to the peaks and snowdonia etc but our local school benefits massively from visiting.

Or is this simply a case that your view of what we do with the countryside is inherently better? That you want it just how you like it? That it's for you to guard from the dumb masses? That you never have listened to other voices - whether we're from towns or countryside - and won't start now?

Mr Monbiot and his fan(s) - I suggest you listen outside your echo chamber. I do mean that kindly, we could do with decent activists on the issues that do matter

alltouchedout · 01/06/2017 22:02

I am genuinely speechless

Notmyrealname85 · 01/06/2017 22:04

...post-capitalist? Hm maybe late stage capitalism is what I mean :)

Lockheart · 01/06/2017 22:04

Personally I think we need more farms and more focus on local seasonal produce in supermarkets.

AgentProvocateur · 01/06/2017 22:06

It's frightening to think that people as thick as the OP are allowed to vote.

GinGeum · 01/06/2017 22:08

OH has just come home at 10pm and I've just quoted this thread at him. He started to reply, slapped his forehead, and just shook his head and wandered off muttering.

Good to see lots of support for farmers from PP though - thank you.

Notmyrealname85 · 01/06/2017 22:11

Ps I say Monbiot as...

This is the thickest thing I've ever read. I'm starting to think he's the Guardian's Hopkins

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/09/lake-district-world-heritage-site-george-monbiot

Literally do not know where to begin on the actual ...I'd call them inaccuracies... Lies?! It's so weird! He's such an oddball and just completely wrong. Worse - he surely writes this shit on purpose to get views? (Which I know I'm now giving him) He should be held to account for this

MontyPythonsFlyingFuck · 01/06/2017 22:13

I'm particularly amused by JanetBrown's point of view as she allegedly has 5 children (or was it 6?). Good luck feeding them when bread's a fiver a loaf.

Juno2002 · 01/06/2017 22:14

Wow, that point of view is so concerning! I'm a tenant farmer and we are really struggling at the moment with rising input costs and a crap price for our produce, not to mention astronomical rents. I'm petrified about how we'll be able to continue to farm without our subsidy post Brexit. We have several family members taking a wage from the business as well as three employees - worrying times :(

Patriciathestripper1 · 01/06/2017 22:16

Small farmer here and I've just produced this for op.... it's home baked Biscuit

derxa · 01/06/2017 22:19

Thank you Notmyrealname85

HarrietSchulenberg · 01/06/2017 22:19

No need to worry about a shortage of farm labour post-Brexit, my local landowning MP reckons pensioners should do it for buttons:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/14/tory-minister-wanted-uk-pensioners-to-be-low-wage-fruit-pickers