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AIBU?

Telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for my daughter to go to university.

251 replies

sociallyacceptable · 31/05/2017 08:52

My DD is very bright and could go to university if she doesn't arse about trying to be cool like I did. She is now 12.
My mum often talks about what she might do at university when she is older. I have been considering discouraging her from going because of the cost, we cannot afford to fund it ourselves unfortunately and she will have huge debt. It's kind of light hearted but I feel like telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for her to go as she is not interested in voting to change this.

OP posts:
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glueandstick · 31/05/2017 10:22

You sound hard work and miserable.

Let your daughter decide what to do when she's older. Crushing ambition and self improvement is pathetic and not what a parent should do. You should support and encourage small people to aim as high as high as they can and support their decisions whatever they may be.

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indigox · 31/05/2017 10:23

YABU and after:

My DD could leave school at 18 and she could get a job, deposit for a house etc. Going to university and studying will leave her without the option of owning her own home until we die as I see it. I do want to encourage her but honestly hate the thought of her carrying £30000-£40000 debt when she's just started. My brothers child just finished university, studied History and has £30000 debt, what job can they get now??

You clearly don't have a clue. What job do you expect her to get at 18 with no experience and no qualifications? Earning potential for those with degrees is higher so she'll be much more likely to own a home with a degree than without.

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pottered · 31/05/2017 10:23

exactly barbarian Corbyn is promising the moon on a stick, and Op, your DD is 12 - tuition fees could've been cut and re-introduced by the time she goes - there is no future proofing in any of labour's manifesto.

Cynically, I expect that by the time my DDs (6 and 2) are uni age, the fees will be back and you're credulous if you count on promises from politicians.

NHS spending and pensions spending are the big beasts that are consuming education spending, and the reason university tuition can't be free is due to the huge numbers now going.

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WorldsacpeLove · 31/05/2017 10:24

@QuintessentialShadow No. We will still allow students to study in the UK; just not allow them (all) to stay afterwards. We will also allow university teaching staff in post-brexit - they are "skilled migrants".

What is already affecting us is that Uk researchers are being removed or not added to big EU funding grants.

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Kokusai · 31/05/2017 10:25

Let your daughter decide what to do when she's older. Crushing ambition and self improvement is pathetic and not what a parent should do. You should support and encourage small people to aim as high as high as they can and support their decisions whatever they may be.

THIS x a million!!!!!!!

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pottered · 31/05/2017 10:26

quintessential I don't think anyone seriously thinks there will be any limit in students paying fees being able to get VISAs, or academics being granted VISAs. These two pools massively benefit the UK so they are very unlikely to face any problems after Brexit.

You know what a better question is? Why do we have so few British academics in the younger generation?

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BandeauSally · 31/05/2017 10:26

It really upsets me to think of all the great minds being stifled by parents out of ignorance or the chips on their shoulders. University isn't for everyone but if it's possible (academically) then the child shouldn't be discouraged just because parents don't really understand how it works.

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WorldsacpeLove · 31/05/2017 10:27

@pottered - because of a severe lack of PostDoc funding (in sciences).

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QuintessentialShadow · 31/05/2017 10:29

I know you will allow overseas students, but will less come if they know they cannot stay after?

I Know I myself did not think in those terms when I first was a student in the UK, I just thought I would return home, did not count on falling in love...

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elevenclips · 31/05/2017 10:29

OP your attitude stinks, sorry to say.

You want to dictate to your mum how to vote.
You want to dictate to your daughter (who will be an adult) what she can and cannot do at university.

Use your vote how you wish and conduct your life how you wish. You did ought to respect the choices of others though.

Your political assessment is also off. I was at university in 1997. I received to my halls of residence a Labour Party leaflet (prior to the election) promising that if Labour got elected nobody would pay tuition fees. Students elected Labour in that area and a Labour govt. got elected nationally. Then tuition fees were introduced Confused. But I'm sure somehow that's the fault of your evil Tory voting mother Confused.

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pottered · 31/05/2017 10:29

not just science - economics for sure too, you can count the under 45 year old British academic economists or economics PhD students on one hand almost.

Because it is massively, massively more lucrative if you have these sorts of skills to go into the city.

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peachgreen · 31/05/2017 10:31

I'm left-wing through and through and even I think scrapping tuition fees is a terrible idea. Far better would be to introduce a graduate tax, which is essentially what student loans are anyway but would stop all this ridiculous scaremongering about "debt".

IMO we're already very lucky that in this country you only pay for university afterwards, and not until you can afford it.

Having said that, more should be done to support lower-income students GET to university (it's the "start up" costs that put many people off, e.g. transport / moving costs, books etc). Also I think it's a good idea not to go to university until you're really sure what you want to do, as it's really a one-time deal for most people.

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NameThatPrune · 31/05/2017 10:34

You're getting a hard time OP. Society as a whole benefits from having an educated workforce, which includes university education. it will be all hands on deck for the UK to try to remain competitive internationally post-Brexit. I think Labour have it totally right on this one and it's an important progressive measure to make it tax payer funded. So your point is very reasonable considering that Labour have now said they will revoke student fees. (How is that six of one, half a dozen of the other Hmm?)

It's taken me decades to pay back my wretched student loan and I would have much rather have been paying that money into a mortgage or a pension. I turned down various company pensions in my 20s because I was still paying back my loan and didnt feel I could afford to make pension contributions on top.

Now I am struggling to throw as much as I can into my crappy pension while I would rather be spending the money on my DC or saving for their future.. like for their university fees.

Yes these are nice problems to have and all that, but OP I think it's totally reasonable for you to point out the obvious to your DM if she is talking about university plans in front of your daughter.

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titchy · 31/05/2017 10:35

Does any of you reckon that universities across the UK will have to lower, or abolish their tuition fees in order to get enough students in after Brexit anyway, due to lack of overseas students taking up places, and overseas academic staff teaching?

No of course not - how on earth do you think we could afford to decrease fees when they're 70+% of our income?

On average applications from EU students are down 5%. They may well fall to a third of their current level - but across the sector UK students are over 80% of the student population. Brexit doesn't affect (directly anyway) overseas non-EU students, although the (usual) rhetoric around immigration targets may deter a few.

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WorldsacpeLove · 31/05/2017 10:36

@pottered - most of the PhD students in my field, and surrounding fields go into the City too.

Maybe we need to rethink how we offer PhD funding and who we offer it too? I am a bit biased though as I am in the minority that is staying in their PhD field; although I will earn 35% of the salary of my peers who have gone to the City. I guess that's why they do it?!

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titchy · 31/05/2017 10:36

It really upsets me to think of all the great minds being stifled by parents out of ignorance or the chips on their shoulders. University isn't for everyone but if it's possible (academically) then the child shouldn't be discouraged just because parents don't really understand how it works.

Me too Sad

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NameThatPrune · 31/05/2017 10:37

Sorry to clarify I didn't phrase very well .. I mean uni education is one form of contribution to an educated workforce - also includes vocational education and training which the govt should also act to make accessible.

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perper · 31/05/2017 10:37
  1. As a teacher, I am shocked and saddened to hear that a parent would discourage an academic child from university.


  1. It drives me mad that people say they can't afford to go to university- it is completely misleading and puts people off which is wholly unfair. The loans and grants make it accessible for ALL, regardless of wealth.


  1. I hate the concept that parents (or grandparents) should pay for their children's university. I am from a relatively well-off family and got the loans to do it pretty much by myself. My parents were very supportive in other ways, but there is no way I'd have expected them to pay. The student goes, the student gets a job, the student slowly pays off the loan when they are earning. That is the case for most students. Parents don't pay in the UK- it is not the norm.


  1. It's not 'starting out in debt'. You only pay it back when you can afford it. I am paying mine back and it makes such a small difference to my monthly income. And hey, I have an undergrad degree, two postgrad degrees, learnt a shit ton (academically and in other senses), and had a great time.


  1. The point of a degree is a) to learn b) to potentially contribute to society's understanding of a topic c) to increase earning potential. Even degrees that you seem to think are useless (e.g. history) are highly valuable.
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titchy · 31/05/2017 10:38

Oh the vast majority on non-EU students return to their home countries by the way it's only TM and the DM that think they all overstay and work as unlicensed cab drivers

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Bluntness100 · 31/05/2017 10:39

What a miserable thread. So short sighted. Encourage your daughter to meet her full potential. To study and do what she wants with her future. Your mother is right. You on the other hand sound unbalanced.

There is a difference between getting a job and having a career and she should be encouraged to prepare for her future in the way she wishes. The debt is more than manageable and not a reason not to study.

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perper · 31/05/2017 10:40

(And for what it's worth, I bought a house at 26 when I left uni with my partner- no help from bank of mum and dad. Yeah, it's no mansion and we'd never been on holiday abroad etc. in order to save for it, but it is possible.)

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herethereandeverywhere · 31/05/2017 10:40

I agree with a graduate tax.

ridiculous scaremongering about "debt".
What is 'ridiculous' or 'scaremongering' about it?

Student debt is taken into account when applying for a mortgage. So is age. As I have experienced, even without £9k tuition fees and on a job as a professional in the City, it took me until I was 30 to pay off £20k (and in large part because I took a secondment abroad for 6 months and lived 6 months rent free).

£30-40k is a crippling level of debt to start out life with.
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PurpleDaisies · 31/05/2017 10:41

Student loan debt is not real money. It doesn't affect your credit rating. You don't pay it if your salary is too low.

I don't know anybody who stresses about their student loan except parents who don't understand the system. It's a a graduate tax in all but name.

I hope your daughter has teachers encouraging her to aim high, even if you don't op.

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PurpleDaisies · 31/05/2017 10:41

Student debt is taken into account when applying for a mortgage.

No it isn't.

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herethereandeverywhere · 31/05/2017 10:42

The debt is more than manageable

Is it bluntness? Any evidence for that or is it just because you say so?

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