Telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for my daughter to go to university.

[sociallyacceptable]

My DD is very bright and could go to university if she doesn't arse about trying to be cool like I did. She is now 12.
My mum often talks about what she might do at university when she is older. I have been considering discouraging her from going because of the cost, we cannot afford to fund it ourselves unfortunately and she will have huge debt. It's kind of light hearted but I feel like telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for her to go as she is not interested in voting to change this.

[fuckwitery]

If they don't have significant parental contribution students are then in the position of having to find a part time job that pays enough to cover bills/travel/food/text books etc etc etc before they even think about having any fun. Oh, and they also have to work hard and get a good enough degree to justify all the debt.

Fun!!? why should the taxpayer pay to ensure a student has fun? I went eons ago but got a part time job to fund my living expenses.

[KittyVonCatsington]

Yes, I knew that prettywhiteguitar but at £16 per month, I can't get myself worked up over that

[BarbaraofSeville]

It's a shame that only kids from wealthy families can study these type of subjects though isn't it

When did it stop being the norm for students to work? It used to be that nearly all students worked part time and full time in the holidays to help pay their living costs. I actually went part time so took 5 years to get my degree, but I was working 30 hours a week for my employer at the same time. But we shared a lot of lectures with full time students and nearly all worked 10-20 hours a week in addition to being a student, as did all the DCs of colleagues, some of which had less than 10 hours a week contact time for a 'full time' degree so plenty of time to work, study, and have a social life too.

Now everyone seems to say that 'they're too busy studying' to work. .

[Genevieva]

Although tuition fees have gone up, the payment method improved. It is 9% on earnings over £21K a year for 25 years after graduating. Then any outstanding debt gets written off. By contrast, I paid £1K a year in tuition fees, but I repay 9% of everything I earn over c.£17K and my student loan will follow me around until I am 65 years old (that's a repayment period of 44 years). So people going to university now will be debt free before I am.

[sysysysref]

It's not a stark choice between minimum wage jobs or university any way. If she doesn't want to take on university debt then there are plenty of A level training schemes with really good companies who take on bright students and pay for them to get relevant qualifications and that's an option to explore.

Look at getting a degree as an investment in her future and bear in mind that many degrees, particularly in the arts really have very few hours a week and working is absolutely feasible. Science is a different matter as they are longer

[tabbymog]

Some countries (like the one where I was educated, Germany) consider free university education an investment in the future workforce. It's worked for them since WW2. Unfortunately, this year, due to the afflictions of austerity, the German government recently announced that Uni education will shortly become fee-free only for EU citizens.

University fees need to be considered as only one part of an economic policy that also deals with, among other things, tax evasion by companies such as Apple, Starbucks, Amazon, and many others, and private individuals who are notably large donors to the Tory party.

The old adage that 'an honest politician is one who stays bought' seems particularly appropriate for the current bunch of Tory pols. Where do they get these people?

[Zimmerzammerbangbang]

I'm a labour voter and this promise to remove tuition fees is one of the (many) things that has me waivering. As others have said, I just don't see why the population as a whole should have to pay for a minority of the population to do degrees and get paid more as a result.

I've always been pro a 'graduate tax' myself as I think it's psychologically different to being in debt and means that people who earn more end up paying more back.

[RainbowsAndUnicorn]

HE should not be free, enough waste it as it is without more doing so.

So many take the "loans" with no intention of paying back their debt, lots don't even bother to work after. It should be compulsory payback regardless of earnings. That way we could reduce the fees a little and everyone wins.

[Instasista]

She funds her rent/ living expenses by working. Almost everyone I know did that.

[Babbitywabbit]

OP - it's easy to berate the older generation for getting their university education for free, but you're ignoring the fact that back in the day when us over 50s went, only about 8% of young people got into university. It's now knocking on 50% and there isn't a limitless purse to fund whoever wants to do a degree.

Put tuition fees out of your mind. Everyone pays them- they never see the money, it's a debt which they will repay IF they are earning above the threshold in the future.

Maintenance loans are means tested, so if you're on a low income your dd will qualify for more. Having been through all this with my own children, I can tell you that the students more likely to be working part time along side studying for their degree were the ones who werent getting much maintenance loan. Those from very poor backgrounds (and of course the very wealthy) are likely to be fine.

You have a strange attitude to it all OP. I don't know why your mother has anything to do with whether your dd goes to uni

[WorldsacpeLove]

The Labour Party have appeared to not discuss the scrapping of tuittion fees this September with anyone. Universities have already been stuffed by Brexit, Trump, and many departments have had huge cuts due to NHS funding being reduced, as well as low prices in commodity trades...

There is not a hope in hell many of the smaller universities will be able to have tuition fees slashed to 0 from this September and survive. Russell group universities will likely be fine, as will be Oxbridge, however the smaller universities, where grade boundaries are slightly lower (but teaching still very good), where the cost of living is significantly cheaper, and where many children from lower-income families choose to go due to the cost of living, are going to really suffer.

And. I feel it's totally crap to get prospective student's hope's up by telling them that university fees will be slashed, when it's totally not achievable. I fear there are going to be devastating consequences.

[Figment1234]

Not really on topic but I am a bit baffled by these History degree bashing comments. Do people really think that anyone with a History degree can only become the next Simon Schama? I am a History graduate and my classmates and I have done OK for ourselves... I'm a City solicitor, I have friends who are teachers, high level managers in big corporations... a History degree opens the doors to so many other things.

[Genevieva]

Zimmer, I agree. When a third of school children are not getting 5 A*-C grades at GCSE we have to question where our financial priorities should be. I look at my student loan repayment (which is huge because it covered rent etc) as a graduate tax. It hasn't stopped me taking three lots of maternity leave or influenced my career choices. It isn't taken into account when applying for a mortgage.

[titchy]

I'm glad you've had a rethink OP - but really, to sit there in the first place and actively discourage your child not to go to university, WITHOUT HAVING ACTUALLY LOOKED INTO HOW THE FINANCES WORK, is shameful.

And why not history instead of engineering or another 'vocational' degree? Most graduate level jobs don't actually require a degree in a specific subject - AGAIN A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH WOULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL.

Advice to all - PICK A SUBJECT YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. Pointless applying for engineering if you're crap at Maths. Pointless doing Nursing if you hate it a drop out after a year. Pointless doing anything unless you actually graduate.

[Chickoletta]

Do not discourage your daughter from going to university because she will get into debt. What ridiculous logic! In getting a degree and professional job she will be able to afford to pay the repayments. Many people on MN support their children through university because they can afford to. If you can't, she will be able to do it herself. Please be ambitious for her.

[notapizzaeater]

18000 is not a minimum wage job ......

[lanouvelleheloise]

YANBU!

Can your daughter consider studying somewhere like Denmark where (I think?) it might be cheaper? Most classes are in English.

I'm sick and tired of people who clearly haven't even bothered to look at Labour's document on spending saying that their plans are financially unachievable. (note: This is NOT a comment about people who are arguing with those costings, or debating them in depth. This is about people who quite clearly haven't even bothered to open the spending document, yet who are going around confidently saying "Where is the money going to come from? They aren't telling us!" when there is a bloody document laying this all out). Details on the projected costs of slashing tuition fees and sources of alternative finance are provided here: www.labour.org.uk/page/-/Images/manifesto-2017/Funding%20Britain%27s%20Future.PDF

[Fontella]

I'm a single mum on a low income and my son has just left uni and my daughter is just finishing her first year.

They both work and have done since they were 16, alongside their studies. My son works for a well known pub/food chain, so when he's home he works in the one here in our home town and while at Uni he worked in the one there. Not only has he survived but thrived and has never had to use his student overdraft, something of which he is very proud. In fact his financial management has been astounding and set him in good stead.

My daughter also works for a different food chain and pulls in a good wage each month at the same time as studying. As her course involved the purchase of a £1,000 kit, I did pay for that on my credit card and she has paid me back within the year but that's the only financial 'assistance' I have given her.

Apart from the odd few quid here and there (and I literally mean £20, £50 etc.) I'm not and have never been in a position to help fund them and they both knew that from the start, but they both still decided they wanted to go to uni.

Yes they will have student loans to repay but so do millions of others and why not? I'm not blaming the current government, past governments or anyone else. It's the sheer volume of students that has meant that some form of tuition payment is both inevitable and necessary.

[CrazedZombie]

50% of kids go to university. 50% of CVs will list university and will put your dd at a disadvantage.

Most people in office jobs don't have a specific degree. I worked in marketing and degrees ranged from drama to physics.

[silkpyjamasallday]

TBH most people I know just took on the debt rather than parents paying it, even if they could easily afford it. My parents didn't pay my fees, so I will have £50k+ debt when I finish. Almost everyone I know is in the same position except for trustafarians. Yes the torys increased the fees but labour brought them in in the first place so having a go at your DM over her voting preference is pointless. Yes having that debt hanging over you isn't nice but that is the way life is now if you want to further your education.

[Chickoletta]

I've just read your post about only encouraging her to take a 'vocational' degree subject. FFS! As others have tried to explain to you, a degree is a level of education and, to a large extent, it doesn't matter to employers what it's in. My degree is joint honours in 2 arts subjects and I have an MA in a very specific arts field - before I decided to step back after having DCs I was earning £45k at 28.

A good friend of mine read Theology at Oxford and is now in a senior position at Prudential (finance).

By your own admission you know nothing about higher education so, when the time comes, I would allow your daughter to take advice from people such as teachers who do understand rather than inflicting your ignorance on her.

I the meantime, encourage her passions whatever they may be, rather than thinking about how much money they can make her.

[CrazedZombie]

She could always do a Gap Year before university to save a chunk of costs before she starts?

[pottered]

well i went and did history, took out loans (no family money) and then went into a lucrative IT career. Degrees are a signal of intelligence, they don't all have to be specifically tailored.

It could be your attitude and hand wringing about the debt that might hold your DD back - what about the kids that won't get to university, where is the investment in them from Corbyn?

[BarbarianMum]

Tuotion fees were first itdoduced and later increased to plug the huge gap between what higher education costs and what successive governments were willing to pay. I'd be a lot more reassured about the abolition of fees if I knew how that gap was going to be plugged in future.

[QuintessentialShadow]

Does any of you reckon that universities across the UK will have to lower, or abolish their tuition fees in order to get enough students in after Brexit anyway, due to lack of overseas students taking up places, and overseas academic staff teaching?