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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU unreasonable to want an NHS?

55 replies

imablackstarnotapopstar · 31/05/2017 08:30

Just watch this and then decide what you really feel about about Theresa May's policies - src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/tx3hrpDCct8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen> 8

If you ever use the NHS you need to be sure what you're voting for (& yes even if you have private healthcare and have surgery or an illness you'll be put in an ambulance and sent to an NHS hospital if there's a problem)

Be honest with yourself - do you think it's right to force NHS Trusts to sell off their assets to a private company quickly and cheaply or else their funding is cut??

OP posts:

silkybear · 31/05/2017 11:10

So labour started it but the tories are finishing it...that's ok then

Blaaaaaaaah · 31/05/2017 11:13

I've just checked and they did use the phrase '2 for 1' in the report, but he is misusing it to give the impression that assets are being sold in 2 for 1 deals, they're not. It's match funding from central government to the NHS.

BillSykesDog · 31/05/2017 11:20

PFI deals were different as they left hospitals with huge debts for capital investment. This way of doing it means they take on no debt but use the assets they already have to maximise their value most efficiently and free funds from old, inadequate parts of the estate to invest in new, superior facilities.

If you have a good old google of this you will see that within the NHS itself and stakeholders such as the King's Fund the report has been welcomed. Not to mention the report was written in consultation with them.

The only people getting their knickers in a twist are left wing activists who see it as a convenient way of conning people into thinking it means the NHS is being broken up and sold off.

x2boys · 31/05/2017 11:37

Yes totally agree Effic but people have short memories .

Tanith · 31/05/2017 11:38

"I simply do not understand how any one who claims to have even the smallest interests in politics can continue to ignore (or pretend to ignore) the basic fact that the last labour government are responsible for the funding crisis in the NHS. "

You are wrong. Margaret Thatcher's Conservatives started the funding crisis in the NHS. I am old enough to remember the cuts, the empty wards because they couldn't afford to run them, the long waiting lists for treatment.

taytopotato · 31/05/2017 11:42

Thanks OP. The Naylor report needs to be scrutinised.

Onthehighseas · 31/05/2017 11:50

The NHS isnt safe under any government. Who do you think put an NHS hospital up for tender for the first time? Andy Burnham. Every party will continue commissioning services via tender, that is how it is now.

silkybear · 31/05/2017 12:12

So anyone who wants a free NHS is a 'left wing activist?' Come on. Can we not discuss the direction of the NHS now without blaming labour or the tories? Personally I think we need a referendum on the NHS. To decide if we want it paid for via taxation/NI and properly reformed or privatised under a US model. All this selling off behind our back which both parties have colluded in is not ok and we need to say enough is enough now regardless of who gets in to power next.

grasspigeons · 31/05/2017 12:23

Silybear. .why pick it's either the NHS or USA. There are lots of alternatives. If I had to pick between those I'd pick NHS. If I had to pick how the french, or Swiss, or swedish or german system works. .I might pick that. I don't get this uk/usa dichotomy at all. The USA spends more of its gdp on healthcare than nearly anywhere else, has terrible access for the poor and ranks about 35 th on the WHO rankings. (UK about 25th I think)
If we have a referendum at least offer us our current system or a better one.

silkybear · 31/05/2017 12:29

I don't disagree grass, its just a US model is what we are getting by the back door right now. I just mean as that is the plan anyway they could at least give us the courtesy of asking the public whether we want that or not.

grasspigeons · 31/05/2017 12:31

Silkybear. .ah, I see. Yes you are right it is what's sneaking in bit by bit.

BillSykesDog · 31/05/2017 12:44

So anyone who wants a free NHS is a 'left wing activist?'

Can you point out where I said that? You can't because I didn't so you just made something up because you're losing the argument.

What I said was that the Naylor report has generally been accepted as a positive step amongst NHS management and NHS interest groups and the only people making a fuss about it are left wing activists using it in a deliberately misleading way.

The problems with management of the NHS property portfolio are well known and accepted within the NHS and believe me nobody is going to be regretting the loss of these old buildings.

Example: King's Fund, well respected strongly pro NHS charity with solid links to NHS management.
www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2017/05/important-first-steps-nhs-estate

BillSykesDog · 31/05/2017 12:49

How is building facilities which are owned by the NHS and will capable of being utilised much longer into the future by the NHS than the current decrepit buildings 'bringing in a US model by the back door'?

It's actually securing the NHS's future by giving it the capital investment it needs without plunging it in to debt. It will mean the NHS is fully equipped for the future in property it owns outright.

But keep shouting your slogans. Those who are too dim to do their own research will flock to your flag I'm sure. Which is the whole point isn't it?

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 31/05/2017 12:58

Tories have been in for 7 years

Can people stop going kn about labour starting it

Yep maybe they did...no idea...have never voted labour

But its fucking pathetic that the tories ....who i have voted for by the way...are using that as an excuse.

Lets say labour started it, they started pulling down the NHS. Happy to agree with that (ive no idea really)

But the tories have completely pulled it down and are currently jumping up and down on it with hobnail boots

And maybe its too difficult to help now, maybe its too late

But labour started it is quite literally playground politics

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 31/05/2017 13:02

Most European countries have a better health service than the NHS.
It's leaner, faster and semi private.

Everybody is insured, no one chronically ill is being left out.

The NHS is untouchable, being the sacred cow of British politics, but will definitely benefit from a shake up.

x2boys · 31/05/2017 13:05

but all of politics is like that isnt it i dont think for one minute if labour get into power they will improve things ,they can promise what they want at the moment as they are not in power so it makes no differance really i think its 'Hobsons choice' at the moment who to vote for

lucydogz · 31/05/2017 13:21

are you deranged OP? If not, why are you posting exactly this same post all over MN, regardless of how applicable it is?

Sionella · 31/05/2017 13:23

Unfortunately the original NHS was simply not designed to cover today's population, increased longevity, increasingly advanced and expensive treatments etc. It's a black hole that will suck in any amount of cash, regardless of what is thrown at it. YABU to assume that it can continue. It needs some serious work.

However, YANBU to want to continue with healthcare that is free at the point of access. Finding a happy medium to achieve this has to be the way forward.

I don't know why this "vote labour, save the NHS" cry has become a thing. Labour won't save it. They'll raise taxes, pump in a shitload of cash for a short term fix, and it will continue to stagger on its bloated, inefficient way, sucking up more and more cash. Until we get a different leader/government who will go right back to cuts to make up what was spent.

KungFuEric · 31/05/2017 15:34

His is a genuine question to help understand, but what's in it for the private companies who buy the decaying property from the NHS? Most private companies aren't charities, they'll want to be seeing a gain from it. Where's their gain?

BillSykesDog · 31/05/2017 15:37

But the tories have completely pulled it down and are currently jumping up and down on it with hobnail boots

How? How? What are they doing? Facts please not left wing sloganeering.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 31/05/2017 15:39

Oh for pities sake

I am not left wing!

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 31/05/2017 15:40

Omg i have just managed to spell pity's wrong

Doh

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 31/05/2017 15:49

My comment was more aimed at people saying that the rot started under labour when the tories in the last 7 years have been unabke to stop the rot...and the rot appears to be getting worse

But I honestly wouldn't listen to someone who can't spell pity's

TheHiphopopotamus · 31/05/2017 15:55

They'll raise taxes, pump in a shitload of cash for a short term fix, and it will continue to stagger on its bloated, inefficient way, sucking up more and more cash

Isn't that how Labour 'solve' everything? Fwiw, I completely agree with your post. We really need someone who will tackle the NHS properly, but no one seems to want to attempt it.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 31/05/2017 16:20

No one will ever attempt it because it's the sacred cow of politics.

Any criticism or a hint of a reform and you have everybody up in arms and your political opponents will milk for all it's worth.

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