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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask how anyone can justify the fact Theresa May categorically refused to say she thinks Brexit is a good idea

129 replies

Bearbehind · 29/05/2017 22:04

Seriously, the Prime Minister has basically just said she doesn't agree with Brexit but 'it's the will of the people' so she'll carry on regardless.

Doesn't that make anyone think twice?

OP posts:
WrongTrouser · 30/05/2017 14:31

It seems from this thread a lot of people who voted leave don't have a problem with Theresa May's stance on Brexit and aren't bothered that she campaigned for remain. People who voted remain but accept that the democratic result was to leave so we will leave don't seem to have a problem with TM's stance either.

The pp who are unhappy with TM's stance are, I suspect, people who still do not really think we should Brexit. So it is not really surprising that they are not happy with TM's position. They wouldn't be happy with any politician who was saying they would lead the country through leaving the EU.

ProudConservative · 30/05/2017 14:41

Bearbehind

It wasn't the best analogy in the world, granted, but the 'company' is headed in that direction whether the CEO likes it or not. I'm posting on a thread on a parenting forum on my phone. Trying (perhaps failing) to make a point but hardly looking to write a serious op-ed piece for the national media!

May hasn't said she thinks Brexit is a good idea. She's simply doing the best she can with the hand she's been given.

Maybe a better analogy would be 'Captain of a ship headed downstream in a very fast current. The Captain can't stop the ship, she can simply navigate the river.'

WrongTrousers

I'll be a rebel and answer anyway, rather than do as you instruct.

The morons I referred to were (in order of appearance) ;

  1. Brexit voters
  2. Remain campaigners

The idiots were (in order of appearance);

  1. Corbyn
  2. many of his obedient followers who can't bear to hear an arguement against him or an arguement for the Conservatives.
specialsubject · 30/05/2017 14:44

Nobody knows if it will work out well or not. Ask in ten years.

May was a remain supporter , to say otherwise would be a lie. You might I've noticed that no one else wanted to be prime minister, and the man who was and whose gamble failed ran for the hills.

specialsubject · 30/05/2017 14:44

Might HAVE noticed. Stupid autocorrect monkey.

WrongTrouser · 30/05/2017 14:54

It amazes me at this stage of the game that there are still people out there who think name calling and insults does anything except make them look like

  1. they don't know what's going on in the big wide world

  2. they live in a little bubble, don't read widely or make an effort to understand others' views and

  3. despise half their country folk so probably don't have much to contribute to meaningful political discussion.

CaptainBrickbeard · 30/05/2017 14:57

Brexit is demonstrably NOT 'the will of the people'. It was an extremely slim majority in an advisory referendum. Very nearly half 'the people' who voted wanted to remain. Certainly nobody can claim a hard Brexit is 'the will of the people'. It's an absolutely nonsense phrase; the 'people' are not of one mind, they are deeply divided.

May should be able to give some positives to Brexit; the fact she is failing to do so makes it crystal clear that there are no benefits to Brexit for 'the people'. Brexit benefits the wealthy elite. It's on their behalf that May is acting, not the people of this country. Just a tiny minority of extremely rich people for whom Brexit will generate more wealth and power. For every other person I this country, Brexit means a decline in living standards and it will make each one of us poorer. She cannot scrape together any defence of Brexit because there is none. If there was any advantage, she would be trumpeting it. There isn't. So she can't. But she won't stop it, because it will strengthen the riches and power of the very elite.

ProudConservative · 30/05/2017 15:07

WrongTrouser

Are you going to keep on talking about "despising half the country" until someone takes notice of you?

I know a 7 year old with a similar MO.

CaptainBrickbeard

Unless you're going to show irrefutable proof of electoral fraud, Brexit demonstrably IS the will of the people.

"Very nearly half the people who voted wanted to remain". Yes, so a minority. There could have been a single deciding vote. Do you understand?

If we say 'the majority' instead of 'the people', does it make it clearer for you?

WrongTrouser · 30/05/2017 15:14

Personal insults as an alternative to rational discussion. Deeply impressive and very convincing.

ProudConservative · 30/05/2017 15:22

I thought you'd told me I wasn't allowed to contribute anyway wrongtrousers.

Do you think my pointing out your immaturity was a personal insult?

Considering that your reply was sarcasm, it does make me wonder how you manage in real life, or if in fact, you can't.

twofingerstoEverything · 30/05/2017 15:27

I completely agree with you, Brickbeard

CaptainBrickbeard · 30/05/2017 15:28

Proud, calling it the majority would be far more accurate than referring to it as 'the will of the people'. That phrase implies unity, that everyone agrees. In fact, it was bitterly fought, narrowly won and there is a huge amount of anger and discord. The wording misrepresents the reality of the situation. It erases the millions of people passionately opposed to Brexit. 'The people' did not speak, the country did not make the decision to leave - a tiny, tiny majority voted out but enormous numbers of people did not and still do not wish to leave. The country is full of division. 'The people' do not agree on this. Of course I understand that Leave won, but to call it 'the will of the people' makes it sound like an overwhelming victory which brought the country together. I don't think anyone would try to argue that is the case!

WrongTrouser · 30/05/2017 15:33

I said I wasn't interested in hearing your views. For someone who obvs thinks of themself as so much cleverer than the average person, it seems strange that you would misunderstand this as me saying that you cannot contribute.

You might think that you can post insults to millions of people you have never met and that no-one will challenge. You might think that continuing to post personal insults to me is in some way winning the argument. It isn't. I have no interest in having any further conversation with you.

AngeloMysterioso · 30/05/2017 15:50

Ugh. Few things about the referendum result piss me off more than these "it's the will of the people" "the country decided" lines.

It is not the will of the people. The country did not decided.

It is the will of 51.9% of the people who voted. Just over half the vote. "The People" "The Country" decided fuck all.

twofingerstoEverything · 30/05/2017 15:53

It is the will of 51.9% of the people who voted.

And let us not forget that some people voted to leave because of the lie on the bus. This bears repeating because I have read many, many times on MN that 'nobody actually believed what it said on the infamous bus.'

surferjet · 30/05/2017 15:55

Not this again Hmm

WeakAndUnstable · 30/05/2017 16:00

47% of people believed the bus lie according to the Ipsos Mori poll conducted in the week prior to the vote...a point to ponder when citing the "will of the people" as a valid director of our collective future.

scottishdiem · 30/05/2017 16:00

None of the Leavers were up to getting elected as leader of the Tories and therefore PM for Brexit.

So she is doing what she thinks is best. On the ballot, Brexit was to leave the EU and thats what we are doing. Leaving it all. Leaving all the share policy, share institutions, shared law, shared immigration, shared trade. Thats what she is doing. Now, its not hard to see why someone with her experience will think most or indeed all of this is a farce but she would be another enemy of the people if she didnt.

So I dont think its odd she isnt a Leave believer but is leading the country in leaving. She is respecting the outcome of the vote, regardless of the problems it is causing and will continue to cause.

WrongTrouser · 30/05/2017 16:03

I think if you are going to go for the line that leave voters believed the red bus, which was debunked quite some time ago, you really need to produce some evidence that these people have changed their minds and would vote differently now. All the poll data I have seen has shown the opposite.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 30/05/2017 16:14

I do understand the point about TM being the only person prepared to become PM so we are between a rock and a hard place.

The thing I still can't comprehend is why, when it seems there is no one in a position to influence Brexit, that actually believes in it and it's being made very clear TM will take no responsibility for the outcome, do people think it's still a good idea?

Why, when TM cannot find a single example of a positive that has changed her opinion on leaving, are people still happy to plough headlong into the unknown?

What is this illusive 'long term gain' we all all have to look forward to?

OP posts:
ProudConservative · 30/05/2017 16:24

WrongTrouser

Depending on how it's calculated, I'd guess I'm 'demonstrably' much cleverer than the average person. The top 1.25% perhaps.

CaptainBrickbeard

Will of the people is usually taken to mean the general will or rule of law i.e. a democratic outcome. Again, when you say "the country did not make the decision to leave", of course it didn't. The country is not a decision making entity. It refers to a majority of a vote. You're consumed with semantics but it makes no difference. There was a vote. Brexit won. Calling it the 'will of the people' or 'the country' or whatever term you find acceptable makes no difference.

Should the unthinkable happen and Labour win the GE, will you be pointing out that this was only the will of x per cent of people or will you be suggesting that we mustn't erase those who voted against Corbyn and his fellow idiots or will you simply be saying that in a democracy, we should accept the result of a vote?

CaptainBrickbeard · 30/05/2017 16:31

Semantics do matter. The language we use is extremely important.

I didn't suggest overturning any results. Should the Tories or Labour win with a small majority, that's how I'll describe it. I've never described an election result as 'the will of the people' because it is a trite, fatuous statement which doesn't ring true.

Brexit is a huge, irreversible change which will have an enormous impact on everybody's lives. The vote was won by a tiny, fragile majority and the campaign was tainted by outright lies. For people to repeatedly assert that it is 'the will of the people' is a transparent attempt to add legitimacy and credibility to something which is very likely to turn out very badly for a lot of people - it's an attempt to shift culpability. It's abhorrent.

annandale · 30/05/2017 16:48

If people hadn't wanted to believe the bus, they wouldn't have. Just like if the politics of Murdoch's papers didn't resonate with people, they wouldn't have much effect. It's not like the bus or the referendum or even Farage or Boris's comedy journalism turned a nation of staunch Euro enthusiasts into leavers.

WrongTrouser · 30/05/2017 16:52

Depending on how it's calculated, I'd guess I'm 'demonstrably' much cleverer than the average person. The top 1.25% perhaps

ProudConservative · 30/05/2017 17:05

WrongTrouser

What are the chances! That's the noise I'd expected you to be making over your keyboard all this time.

CaptainBrickbeard

When you say, "[it's an] attempt to add legitimacy", it soundslike you think the Brexit vote is illegitimate. That goes against you saying you don't want to overturn the result.

Which is it?

ProudConservative · 30/05/2017 17:05

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