not to challenge this antivaxxer mum at playgroup?

[CaptainWarbeck]

Chatting to a nice mum this morning about child health nurses, she says she's really struggled to find a 'good' one because they've made the decision not to vaccinate their youngest child.

Cue a bit of a monologue from her about how their oldest suffered a 'vaccine injury' (not sure what this was, he seems a regular kid) and it's really much better to vaccinate later, if at all, and her doctor has been very pushy and they've annoyingly had to switch practices because of it.

Argh. I diplomatically made sympathetic noises and did say we were big vaccination fans but each to their own and you've got to do what you think is right for your child yada yada.

Now I'm feeling like I maybe should have challenged her a bit more, rather than just being supportive of what I perfectly honestly think is mad anti-vaxxer nonsense. AIBU?

12 vaccinations in the first 5 years of life! omg.
I am pro vax, but I am pretty about smashing their little bodies that much so young!

Vaccines can cause injuries, that's an acknowledged fact. If it's unsafe for her child to be vaccinated then she has the right to put her child before anyone elses.

it's not smashing though is it? And much better than catching one of the illnesses.

They crawl around on the floor for a lot of the time. Pretty sure there's a few germs there!

neli it's not gonna happen. This is a gift from the gov in return for kickbacks from the pharma companies to terrorize at least a part of the no vaxxers into vaxxing their dc in a country where ever more people are waking up to the con and refusing to vax their kids.

After a summer of mass media hysteria and deranged propaganda there will be a climb down and the gov will concede it is entirely unenactable.

My LEA have already told me as much and they have NO intention of barring kids from school for this.

This is pure fascism.

I cannot believe the irresponsible zombies willing to vax the fuck out of their poor little dc on the say so of a bribed politician in cahoots with a pharma company.

hazel I have sympathy with your view and largely agree.

but I can't believe the current scale of vaccines is sensible either. Why are so many autoimmune diseases on the rise, for example? Or allergies? One of my own children developed an allergy after her initial vaccines and of course I was told it was coincidental and perhaps it was.

But the vaccine schedule of the 70s/80s and even 90s is very different to what it is now.

"Irresponsible zombies willing to vax the fuck out of their poor little DC"... wtf are you on about????!

Sionella you have to type the ,_Inc. bit as well, sorry. Didn't come up properly.

Wikipedia is a starting point - look up these cases on whichever source you deem appropriate.

No, Wikipedia can be edited by pretty much anyone. It's hardly a peer reviewed medical source.

I don't get it, how can healthy, unvaccinated child be a threat to vaccinated one, or to pregnant women?

Yes - that's why you can look up all the sources in the references, or look up other sources for that case.

I don't think you should be "challenging" someone who has a reason like a vaccine damaged child. Yes, she might be over-reacting to a small reaction, but she also might be genuinely concerned.

Firstly challenging doesn't help half as much as education. I was exceptionally naive when my DD's were born and was surrounded by people (seemingly intelligent and more educated than me) telling me that the MMR would give autism. I ended up giving them single vaccines. I was gutted when I met a new friend who was actually able to show me how to access proper information and I realised they'd been at risk for longer than necessary. It's not always easy to find information if you don't know where to look for it - I had the internet at my fingertips, but google "MMR and autism" and it's a bombardment.

So, people are much better being properly educated rather than challenged harshly imo.

You also can't challenge without knowing the facts of her DS's reaction. My DD's immunisation schedule is slightly out of kilter at the behest of her specialist. She also didn't have her last set of injections at the GP's. I was bombarded by auto letters and phone calls from the practise who kept forgetting or didn't get that her specialist wanted her vaccinations done after a procedure she needed. Sometimes GP practises can have poor admin and can be pushy - which is for good reasons, but can add to pressure a family is already under.

A large number of healthy unvaccinated children reduce herd immunity and this puts immunocompromised people like me at risk of fatal illness. The fewer vaccinated people there are, the more likely an outbreak is. The more likely that people like me die.
But thanks for your "personal choice " you make for me. Really appreciate it.

Sure yolo, and most people will do exactly that. Rather than just rely on what they read on Wikipedia

I don't get it, how can healthy, unvaccinated child be a threat to vaccinated one, or to pregnant women?

Because herd immunity is needed to protect pregnant women (whose own immunity from childhood may have worn off) and particularly children who legitimately can't have the vaccinations.

Someone once described it to me as being like a dam wall. If everyone gets their child vaccinated then the wall is strong and the water is kept away from the people behind the wall who can't swim. If you start taking a few bricks out of the wall then the water gets to the people behind who can't protect themselves.

(Sorry if that's waffly, it's just how it was explained to me many years ago and made me realise how it works)

There was very recently the first ever study (independent) into risks vs efficacy of vaccinated and unvaccinated children - study? You mean that redacted survey by an anti-vaxxer that asked a few hundred other, volunteering anti-vaxxers if they feel their un-vaxxed children are healthier?

Thanks lalalalyra,
But you say that those pregnant women's immunity from childhood have worn off. That would mean that herd immunity doesn't exist, because immunity is not for lifetime. How many adults are up to date with immunisation?

Radishal I think parents who decided not to vaccinate make their decision based on what they think is best for their child, not you. If their child had bad reaction after vaccination, would you feel guilty or responsible? I don't think so, so they also put their child first.

I am not against, but I believe both sides should have a choice.

12 vaccinations in the first 5 years of life! omg.I am pro vax, but I am pretty confused about smashing their little bodies that much so young!

Thats a completely normal amount of vaccinations.

It HAS happened in Italy. It's done. You anti-vaxxers are going to be fined AND barred, hurrah for common sense.
Viva Italia.

I can call her stupid!

An unvaccinated child gave my 4 week old dd whooping cough and she was very very ill.

If you have a medical advice to not vaccinate then fine but if you just choose not to you are stupid

But thanks for your "personal choice " you make for me. Really appreciate it.

No offense, but you really think people are going to put your wellbeing ahead of their own kids?

NotI

It's not as simple as you may believe. There are still ways to get around this.

It's never simple. But its a bloody good start, and I hope it will spread.

I nearly died as a child when a unfounded whooping cough vaccine danger rumour went around, and many parents refused to get it, mine included. I was in a coma and have lifelong lung problems because of it.
I know all about the damage anti-vaxxers can do with their conspiracy bullshit and lies.

Real life effects

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39419976

March 2017 - Measles - Romania has reported more than 3,400 cases and 17 deaths since January 2016

Not

It's more of a "feel good" thing, imo. But if you're happy about it then that's nor a bad thing, right?