not to challenge this antivaxxer mum at playgroup?

[CaptainWarbeck]

Chatting to a nice mum this morning about child health nurses, she says she's really struggled to find a 'good' one because they've made the decision not to vaccinate their youngest child.

Cue a bit of a monologue from her about how their oldest suffered a 'vaccine injury' (not sure what this was, he seems a regular kid) and it's really much better to vaccinate later, if at all, and her doctor has been very pushy and they've annoyingly had to switch practices because of it.

Argh. I diplomatically made sympathetic noises and did say we were big vaccination fans but each to their own and you've got to do what you think is right for your child yada yada.

Now I'm feeling like I maybe should have challenged her a bit more, rather than just being supportive of what I perfectly honestly think is mad anti-vaxxer nonsense. AIBU?

Some vaccines are unsuitable for some due to way they're made, such as those that are unsuitable for people with allergies to eggs.
We can't assume all people who don't vaccinate are stupid unless they don't have a decent reason like this one not to vaccinate

I have a friend who is an anti-vaxxer. Whenever they state their pov and arguments in conversation, I will always counter with mine. I don't agree with their opinion and will not let it go unchallenged. But if they don't bring it up, neither will I. It is quite possible to have opposing views and still be polite to each other and still be friends, but I don't think either of us is likely to change the other's mind.

They also didn't agree with their children using toothpaste with fluoride in it (again I disagreed with them) but after their 6 year old had several extractions and fillings they started using fluoride toothpaste. That doesn't come up in conversation any more.

You CANNOT state that there are loads of reactions when the people who youj think had the reactions aren't saying so themselves

But they are - it's all over the internet and spoken about amongst friends. All my friends have had effects from different pills and discussed them with each other, for example.

None of them have ever reported it via an official channel - they just switched pills until they found one they could cope with.

Seems to be the story with many women!

There are enough women that have experienced gp's not taking them seriously or denying that they are actually in a lot of pain.

But they are - it's all over the internet and spoken about amongst friends. All my friends have had effects from different pills and discussed them with each other, for example

NO. Just because you THINK you have a side effect from a pill doesn't mean you actually do. People think a lot of shit: people think homeopathy works, ffs, people don't know the first thing about medicines and their own bodies.

The very fact that ALL of your friends think they have had various reactions shows this.

On a side note, I didn't 'report' the problems I had with the copper coil as I was told the symptoms I had were "normal": periods are meant to hurt.

They aren't meant to hurt so much you pass out, but it was never picked up as abnormal until I had the darned thing removed.
I trusted the medical professionals.

Bad example. Thats a known reaction, you're told all about the possible ones before you get a coil.

It's not your business. She has made a decision based on her own experiences and research. She's not an anti-vaxxer, she's just finding it difficult to trust another child to a system which in this situation failed her oldest.

With the greatest of respect your statement that "he seems a regular kid" is based on a very tenuous relationship with him, and you don't know what the damage is.

My Big Son was damaged by the Urabe Strain of the MMR vaccine and despite my decision not to allow him to have the second part of the vaccine (because of the way he reacted to the first) our GP turned up on the doorstep forced his way in to the house, and emotionally blackmailed me into allowing it to be done there and then. It was the worst decision of my life, and I blame myself for not standing up to the bully.

You would probably, on short contact, think Big Son was a "regular Kid" but he's not, and he was damaged by that particular strain of MMR.

Despite this I am not an "anti-vaxxer" I think that modern vaccines are for the most part an excellent medical development. But when it came to vaccinating small son, it took a great deal of courage and research to find a GP who didn't dismiss me as a frothing anti-vaxxer who might be considered to be abusing her child by being cautious about vaccination.

Christ this really is natural selection?! Wonder how these anti-vax parents feel about the iron lung, they must be fans.

And yes in this society we do what's best for the greater good. If a child is going through chemo for example, I'd exclude from their class any anti-vax kids.

And why on earth would you conduct experiments between vaccinated and non vaccinated kids?! No ethics committee would approve that

Anti vaxxers, show your stats!

OP, a lot of people in here say they would just let it go, nod along, no point arguing. Imagine if all those people, and the rest of us acted with the shock her stupid actions call for. Imagine if everyone at playgroup refused to have their child near hers? (This happened at my playgroup by the way.) Imagine if she couldn't access childcare. Imagine if school mums ostracised her. I wonder if she would knowingly put her children and others in danger if she didn't get nods and reassuring smiles from people who know better.

On the other deviation this post is taking, I do get side effects from some drugs based on the fillers/additives they put in them that are meant to be 'inert'. It's still a chemical FFS, how can some of these posters decree that people cannot possibly be having side effects from medications just because they're 'not supposed to' get side effects?!

She's not an anti-vaxxer, she's just finding it difficult to trust another child to a system which in this situation failed her oldest

You don't know that. Just as likely she's an anti vaxxer making excuses.

how can some of these posters decree that people cannot possibly be having side effects from medications just because they're 'not supposed to' get side effects?!

Nobody has said that. Why would they?

Bad example. Thats a known reaction, you're told all about the possible ones before you get a coil
You get told if the known side effects, not the ones they don't know about or down play

Gerda I agree - there are issues with some vaccines (rare) like much medicine. And anti vaxxers with their anecdotal info mess up a lot of serious chat that's needed about accountability (at GP level and far above)

And what you had was a known side effect, so yor point is?

Vaccine damage isn't as rare as people think - it's just swept under the carpet as there is too much profit involved for too many people in the whole vaccination business. Like PPs have mentioned, there are networks of tens of thousands of vaccine damaged children.

I have mentioned it before on here but I am the mum of a DS who was left severely brain damaged (plus many other issues) by the DTAP vaccine. I never try to discourage others from vaccinating (obviously I was a pro vaxxer myself) but I know that seeing the hellish life we have with my DS has discouraged several of our friends and family from vaccinating. I'm sure it's the same with many similar families.

I wish people would all fuck off with their "can't argue with stupid" comments.

Oh christ, the big pharma conspiracy. YAWN.

NO. Just because you THINK you have a side effect from a pill doesn't mean you actually do.

I agree that the placebo effect is a huge thing and people may associate anything that happens to them at that point in life due to whatever meds they are taking - BUT - some of the effects are very definitive. People who's breasts grow 2 sizes and they the change pill and they shrink again. People who suddenly develop acne, get migraines, get horrible mood swings and had no other lifestyle changes. Yes these are known side effects, but if nobody had noticed them and made the connection, or if GPs had brushed them aside saying they were conspiracy theorists, they wouldn't be known! That's my point.

The thing is Walrus, some GPs are absolute wankers. And hugely arrogant. In fact, arrogance is really not a rare trait among doctors. See the birth control example above - another area where plenty of GPs refuse to even enter into a discussion about side effects.

Yeah, who should listen to doctors? They're all just arrogant wankers. We have Google, that's good enough, right?!

Emily

I have experienced something similar with the pill, a young girl I knew via a friend of my mother.

It went to through the court system of my homecountry and she is now severely brain damaged...

We have MN to diagnose people, who needs the fucking drs? And those bastards protecting children with vaccinations for their own nefarious purposes. Fuck them too.

Who's mentioned a conspiracy? Pharma is extremely profitable and there have been plenty of known cases (on Wikipedia, not some "dodgy site") where side effects have been covered up, and testing was unethical and misconducted. There has been Thalidomide and similar. What is your point? Yes, they don't get it right every time, and you can't blame people for being cautious if they had an adverse reaction in the past.

Just because you THINK you have a side effect from a pill doesn't mean you actually do.

Ah yes, have heard that from a GP before. And then it doesn't get reported and the GP gets to sit as judge and jury.

There is no doubt in my mind that the medical profession is skewed towards middle aged white male as default. Problems reported by women and children are often dismissed as being just in their heads, one of those things, etc. It always seems to be the things that affect women and children where there is this complaint of not being listened to.

Circular argument. Like I said first time, no arguing with stupid. If you think that everyone who has ever said that something caused a problem,w ith no proof, logic, second opinion etc, then you aren't going to understand how science works and there is no talking to you.