....to hope even more that a Tory landslide is not inevitable?

[citroenpresse]

Tory manifesto launch day, Jeremy Hunt on the Today programme re Andrew Dilnot care cap:

"We couldn’t be clearer because … not only are we dropping it, but we’re dropping it ahead of a general election and we’re being completely explicit in our manifesto that we’re dropping it, and we’re dropping it because we’ve looked again at this proposal and we don’t think it is fair.”

What else is going?

I wish Teresa May would stop doing that beetlejuice thing with her arms.

I don't like Tories, they are crap, but Corbyn has a very weak shadow cabinet. Imagine them running the country. The plan to fund all their lovely promises may not materialise.

Motheroffourdragons I think that is pretty much it. The main concern will be to ensure the UK pays it's outstanding bills and is fully extracted from EU institutions and the role it will play in defence and security (and the price) is clarified. Ensuring protection for EU citizens in the UK (and vice versa) will be top of the agenda. When Tories talks of 'deals', it isn't at all clear what a good 'deal' means. Because they don't know themselves and have not principles on which to found it.

Brexit is going to be crap regardless. I don't for a moment think May's "let insult everyone and play games and ignore reality and make demands" approach is going to make out exit one iota less painful, in fact I think it will make it worse. Brexit is not the only issue, and I'd far rather live in the UK the Labour manifesto describes than that of the Tory manifesto. The Tories are ridiculous for slating Labour for being chaotic when they are just as bad. So on all fronts, I think we'd be far better off if Labour won.

Motheroffourdragons I'm in the Netherlands!
The attitude here seems to be an appalled - how the hell did you get yourselves into that mess? Oh well, please just make your minds up about whatever it is you want, so we can all move on.

We still have a house in the UK and a lot of family. This is my last vote in a UK election. I'm really sad for Britain.

I completely agree that the lack of a decent deal will be due to us leaving and as far as I can see leaving without any idea of why or what we want instead. I don't blame the EU in it's various institutional guises or the other countries who as you say have bigger fish to fry. I don't expect them to try and give us a good deal unless it is of benefit to theme. It hardly helps that our current government is being discourteous. It is a big issue in some EU businesses even if not in governments.

Never mind strength and stability, what about integrity?

Right now, I don't want any party to have a huge majority. Let whoever forms the government have to think, and work, a lot harder to get business done.

9-14 points difference which is what the polls are currently showing us still a wacking majority in today's terms.

It is to the benefit of the 'winning' party that the polls do close a bit however as it stops complacency and the rallying crys go out to encourage supporters to vote.

This sort of shift happened when Foot closed in on Thatcher in the 1983 election with about the same point difference.

We all know how that ended.

Abitofaproblem As far as I can tell, the Tory manifesto had very little in the way of costings to back up their policies either. They talk a good game about being the safe choice for the economy, but their recent record doesn't back it up.

Yes, Piglet We got Thatcher, but when it looked like she was going to lose the next election, the Tories shafted her. When you have a Tory Prime Minister, it isn't the Prime Minister that is running the country but the rest of the party, the donors, the fat cats who want to ensure they are in power so they can control what's going on. Anybody with any doubts, just look at what May had to do today. Thought she was different? She's a Tory.

If labour win Keir Starmer will be doing the negotiations for brexit and he's an expert on the EU and European law, we would get a far better deal with him than May and Boris
Because Corbyn has publicly stated that he'd not leave the EU without a good deal. So all the EU has to do is refuse to agree to any terms they don't like and we're stuck in the EU. And then, just to make matters worse, they'll really make us pay, more than we are at present. You don't go into negotiations saying that you'll not walk away if you don't get the deal you want, you just don't. Voting for Labour is voting to stay in the EU AND being the EU's whipping boy for the rest of eternity.

IsabelleSE19 I agree, but the Tories are not promising as much spending, and they haven't ruled out raising taxes.

citroenpresse The EU wants access to our intelligence; and as for defence, we deal with that via NATO. I don't think it will be the UK paying for EU defence within an EU context.

Depends who you talk to Mother. It is still spoken about where I am in Belgium and where dh works.

When you have a Tory Prime Minister, it isn't the Prime Minister that is running the country but the rest of the party, the donors, the fat cats who want to ensure they are in power so they can control what's going on
And if you had a Labour PM you'd have the Unions running the country. They fund the Labour Party & they make the decisions because they have the money and the union vote.

When you have a Tory Prime Minister, it isn't the Prime Minister that is running the country but the rest of the party, the donors, the fat cats who want to ensure they are in power so they can control what's going on.

Whereas Labour have the union. Surely Labour is a political party, and they listen to their donors too?

What would a 'Union' led country look like? When Blair was PM, didn't see much evidence of that. It looked an awful lot like a Tory country. But with more growth.

LadyPW what do you see as the key differences between May's 'good deal' and Corbyn's 'good deal'? What will be up for grabs in terms of 'good deal' - isn't that quite a limited area?

Scaryteacher the EU wants access to everyone's data but no Member State is obliged. Cyber Security and the role of GCHQ - another huge issue for the post-Brexit world.

citroenpresse but Corbyn is hardly Blair? Without the union he wouldn't be where he is. If it were Blair there won't be a Tory landslide, but as far as I can see Blair is not exactly embraced by his own party. All the moderates MP refuses to work with Corbyn. I think that says something.

The idea that the Euro won't shaft us because of strong and stable Teresa is ridiculous.

The EU don't want to shaft us. but if they do, nothing may or Corbyn do will make any difference.