To think scrapping tuition fees is a terrible idea

[bumbleymummy]

Just that really. Corbin saying he's going to scrap fees from September. Bloody stupid idea and something else that we can't afford to pay for.

I hope all those of you saying that the money would be better spent on primary and secondary education are protesting the Conservative's new funding formula. Even head teachers whose schools are set to 'gain' have resigned.

There are nationwide events run by Fair Funding for Schools this Friday. Find out how you can support and unite.

What about all the students since 2012 who have been charged tuition fees...? Will they get the debt written off and the interest it's accruing...🤔

ejm1

No because it would cost more than £70BN!
We spend £38bn on defence and £88bn on education, scrapping all tuition fees (inc those already being paid back) would be really expensive.

YABU
I'd prefer to fund degrees in areas where we are short on workforce, rather than all of them, but anything that helps bridge the ever widening gap between those that have and those that do not has to be a good thing.

Yanbu. Firstly if the world and his wife can go to uni then it devalues having a degree.

Secondly it will cost a small fortune and we don't have the money for things that slready need funding.

I do however think the rise in tuition fees was terrible (and i'm a tory voter). I think back to the old fees. it's not easy but you can pay it inder the old feed. I worked 3 jobs whilst at uni, didn't have monry off my parents & ultimately cleared my loan off when i was 30.

Things like nursing should be earn as you learn type degrees really - many other jobs could/should offer more of this too.

No. I think they should be free. There are just too many "universities" now and too many people going to university. Too many colleges have been given university status when, quite frankly, their standards are far lower than those of traditional universities. While it is great more people are going, there are far more than should be.

The fee repayments are pretty much a 'graduate tax'. You don't pay them back until you start earning a certain amount and, as pointed out a few times now, most people won't pay them back. I do think they're too high now so I'm not against the idea of reducing them.

I hope all those of you saying that the money would be better spent on primary and secondary education are protesting the Conservative's new funding formula. Even head teachers whose schools are set to 'gain' have resigned.

My MP is (I believe) Chair of the committee introducing the changes. He has hustings coming up and I fully intend to take it up with him at one of these. I've been checking out the impact on local schools to ask him how he is doing his best for the local community when the schools are losing a massive amount of funding. Does this count?

Yup.

Higher education could be seen as a national benefit, rather than just narrowly viewing it as a personal benefit. Eg we all need doctors, teachers, civil engineers etc. Yes, they'll earn a decent salary but we all benefit so why don't we invest in these people? Also, graduate salaries are now not especially high, the 'premium' you used to get for a degree was worth about £150,000 k over a working life but for most people nowhere near this now. One result is that many student loans never get repaid, the system is already close to the point where it actually costs more than it saves - so the tax payer is forking out almost as much in loans that never get repaid as they would in simply paying the fees and giving non-repayable grants. Personally I think the current system is the worst possible option. If I had been burdened with a student loan, my income only nudged over the threshold for repayments to kick in after I had been working about 15 years. So I would have had to cope with the loan at exactly the point I was basically spending my entire salary on nursery fees. I would probably have had to give up work.

Higher education could be seen as a national benefit
Yip all those bankers really did us a solid.

OP...if, as you say, you were 'one of the first' to have to pay fees at Uni, you would have graduated (or at least been at uni) around the same time as I was, which would mean that the fees you paid were £1000 a year (with perhaps a student loan taken out if you needed one, for accommodation and living costs). I graduated after a 4 year degree with £12,000, or thereabouts, of tuition and student loan fees to pay back, which was considered a big loan at the time. I was a mature student, single mum with two children, so had to take out a 'maintenance loan' each year. Tuition fees were phased in nationwide, but fully operational from 1998 (I was unlucky and in a 'first phase' area and mine kicked in during my first year 1996!) Yet you say you've only just paid your loan back? If you were one of the first, that means it's taken you about 15/16 years to pay it...today's students are leaving with loans of nearer £50,000 to pay back!! £9000 per year tuition, plus their student loan/maintenance loan on top for accommodation and living costs. At your rate, how long do you think this amount will take to pay back? My daughter is £46,000 in 'student debt' so far and is in her third year with another to go. £36,000 alone for tuition fees plus 4 years of accommodation and living costs. I'm glad you 'hardly felt it' but your experience doesn't really compare does it?

Wassock, I've detailed my fees and costs in earlier posts.My starting salary was quite low (below the 15k threshold) when I left university so my repayments didn't start for a few years and I had long breaks when I had children. I haven't finished paying it back just yet. If I owed more I would just keep paying it as I have been, although, as I have already said, I think current fees could be reduced without scrapping them altogether. I don't think the current system is perfect by any means.

Seems I'm commenting at the end of a rather long thread! But imo YANBU... Myself and DP went back to uni as mature students, with five children between us, last September. I feel that tuition fees are a long term investment into a future career. Admittedly I think they should be reduced slightly, but surely if everyone has a degree then where will all the jobs be? Tuition fees help to distinguish between those who want to invest in their future, and those who want to go to uni for other reasons...

I think it is unfair. How are the graduates from the last 10 years who are currently paying back high loans going to feel? Especially as Corby has said he is going to borrow billions to add to deficit that was slowly coming down. Higher deficit means higher austerity cuts in future. I don't think it is fair for a society to pass down huge debt to next generation. Under current system students value degree more as have paid for it. None have to repay until earnings reach over certain point. It is charged at nominal interest. I think what we need to do is make all overseas students pay up front as many go back overseas and don't pay for final year tuition.

I hope all those of you saying that the money would be better spent on primary and secondary education are protesting the Conservative's new funding formula. Even head teachers whose schools are set to 'gain' have resigned.

I checked the Conservative Manifesto on this specific issue. It says that the new formula will be adjusted so that while the schools due to benefit will still do so, no school will lose money (paraphrasing). This is an adjustment from the previous policy and, as I understand it, it is new money - there is a Barnet consequential for Scotland.

Would be interested to hear properly discussed. There were a lot of schools losing out under the old formula and cross party agreement that it was unfair.

(slight derail)

How are the graduates from the last 10 years who are currently paying back high loans going to feel?

I take your point, but isn't this an issue whenever a change is brought in? Won't there always be people who perhaps paid more under the "old rules" who'll be disappointed?

Hard to see why students would be exempt from that, just by virtue of being students ...

Is it? A private school that I thought about going to (20 years ago before settling on the local comprehensive) now charges £5.5k a term. My parents are comfortable but would struggle to pay those kinds of fees regardless of how much "scrimping and saving" they did.

Yes, although it depends how you define 'rich'. £17k per year doesn't automatically mean you are 'rich'. Some people would be paying that in rent or a mortgage. For some people a set of school fees is the primary outgoing and they don't have much left. They may be working two or three jobs just to get the fees together. Some fees are paid by scholarships, bursaries or another family member.

Comparing universities to privates schools is a straw man argument I'm afraid.

Either you don't know what a strawman is or you've forgotten the original discussion. You claimed that 9k fees put pressure on academics and I pointed out that as some private schools charge much more, that particular argument is not a strong one.

It says that the new formula will be adjusted so that while the schools due to benefit will still do so, no school will lose money

I suspect what they actually mean is that it will remain the same in cash terms. It seems a classic wheeze of politicians.

Plus the new formula hasn't been introduced yet and we are seeing cuts now.

Furthermore, there's about £7bn of investment needed for existing school buildings. This isn't covered by the funding formula nor is it covered by the Tory manifesto. So there's a big shortfall while schools crumble (unless you're a shiny free school).

I think it's a good idea, we have a massive shortage of teachers, nurses and doctors, and it might encourage more people to train. I think it would encourage better quality, essential courses at universities too. Students would still need to support themselves, it is only the course fees that will be paid. I believe we all benefit from people being educated in our communities.

As a Post Grad. And a mature person on this occasion Corbyn is right. I am old enough to remember the time when we did not have to 'pay,' for further education. It worked and we all benefitted. The money came from our NI Contributions. It can be so again.

I may be more mature now. But I would love to be able to contribute more and go for my Phd but cannot even contemplate the idea with the tuition fees so high. The old system was what set us apart from the rest of the world because we gave everyone the opportunity to commit and excel in our society/ And because of that we became world leaders in education.

Since the Tuition fees debacle we have slipped from our esteem worldwide position so much so that our best and brightest now emigrate to other countries around the world where they can achieve a better education with cheap tuition fees or worst with a 'grant,' that we are unable to provide for them here.

Eg. We educate Engineers and they are recruited by the Middle East where they and their families can enjoy a lifestyle of detached homes with swimming pools whilst furthering studies with grants.

Or worst our Scientist/Doctors and Nurses, who often relay that they have the stress of long hours and huge bills whilst studying in a rented flat that they find difficult to afford. As opposed to being 'offered abroad,' a three bedroom house. plus relocation expenses shorter hours and tuition fees paid.

Then we wonder why there is a brain drain when our student graduates and leave the country. Tuition fees do not force them to stay. Scrapping it would at least give them the chance of pursuing the careers and education that they envisaged for themselves in this country.

This is why I say Corbyn is right. Because we use to do it and was the envy of the world. Now we don't we are trailing behind. So scrapping it is a good idea.

I bet you benefited from free education?? Or maybe you don't have one!

Please tell me, WHAT is more important anyway than educating the next generation?! God elitists like you make me sick

Yanbu. Firstly if the world and his wife can go to uni then it devalues having a degree.

Well no, not really- you still have to put in the hard work and learn things, you don't just pay the fee and get a certificate in return