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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Match your outfit with the drapes and no-one will see you are here.

995 replies

lionheart · 19/05/2017 17:33

Watch and listen.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Lweji · 24/05/2017 10:12

So, even Iran is betting on impeachment?

It is sad that as a moderate goes in, the US stance toughens up instead of trying to build bridges and support more moderate currents.

PerkingFaintly · 24/05/2017 11:14

Oh god, I know it's wrong, but I've just laughed like a drain at the call for the death penalty for suicide bombers.

Bless. Janice4Brexit isn't the brightest bulb.

PerkingFaintly · 24/05/2017 11:20

She does attempt to come back by saying that Lee Rigby's killers were jailed alive.

But given they actually asked bystanders to summon the police and then charged the armed cops with an antique pistol, I don't think escaping with their lives was top of their list

AcrossthePond55 · 24/05/2017 13:41

HLN is reporting that 'US sources' leaked the name of the Manchester bomber. I don't know if they mean 'sources' in Intel or 'sources' in the Media. Either way, there goes another piece of our credibility!

Trump's 'new' lawyer for the Russia probe:

heavy.com/news/2017/04/marc-e-kasowitz-attorney-lawyer-bill-o-reilly-donald-trump/

Sounds as if he's cost Scrotus some money in lost lawsuits in the past. But then again it may be that those 'deals' actually saved him from worse penalties. Legal machinations at that level are way over my head, I'm sure.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/05/2017 13:41

Long but interesting thread:

Seth AbramsonVerified account
@SethAbramson

(1) Americans are conditioned by books, TV, and film to believe that criminal cases move relatively quickly prior to any legal appeals.

(2) In fact, a no- or low-investigation state-level MISDEMEANOR (e.g., arrest is on-site) takes well over THREE MONTHS from start to finish.

(3) Meanwhile, a no- or low-investigation state-level FELONY (e.g., arrest is onsite) often takes well over SIX MONTHS from start to finish.

(4) A state-level FELONY that's INVESTIGATION-INTENSIVE (e.g. breaking up a drug-distribution ring) often takes OVER A YEAR start to finish.

(5) A state-level, investigation-intensive MAJOR FELONY, like homicide—and I've tried these—will take over EIGHTEEN MONTHS start to finish.

(6) What about the FEDERAL court system? Well, it moves FAR SLOWER than the state courts. Many federal felonies take YEARS start to finish.

(7) It's in this context that I tell you this: the Trump-Russia scandal is the MOST COMPLEX FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION of our LIFETIMES.

(8) The FBI began investigating the Trump campaign's Russia ties last July. The fed investigation into these ties is now in its tenth month.

(9) What this means is, it's UNBELIEVABLY EARLY in the federal criminal investigation into the Trump campaign's Russian ties. SUPER EARLY

(10) This is why the White House, GOP Congressmen, and far-right trolls like Louise Mensch want you to think it's LATE in the investigation.

(11) To this end, the White House uses Sean Spicer and cable-news surrogates to ask America, every day, "Where's the evidence of collusion?"

(12) To this end, the only non-leak-related questions Congressional Republicans ask Comey, Rogers, or Brennan are on "proof of collusion."

(13) To this end, right-wing trolls undermine the anti-Trump movement with stories they know are BS about how indictments are "coming soon."

  1. What Republican (federal) officials in D.C. know, and what right-wing trolls know, is that it's FAR TOO EARLY for PROOF of collusion.

(15) The goal of the online/offline GOP propaganda machine is to convince you that if there were any "there" to Russiagate we'd know by now.

(16) Meanwhile NONPARTISAN CAREER PROFESSIONALS in law enforcement tell us this is WELL WORTH investigating but they don't have answers yet.

(17) The GOP strategy is genius: (1) use Congress to "call out" hardworking law enforcement pros by acting as if their work should be done;

(18) ...and (2) use the White House and right-wing trolls to simultaneously dangerously under-sell AND over-sell the Russia investigation.

(19) Here are signs a career pro in the criminal justice system would use to determine if a given investigation is in its VERY EARLY stages:

(20) (a) Are major figures in the case lawyered up? If such figures have no attorney or have just gotten an attorney, it's VERY EARLY ON.

(21) So, on that: Trump is looking for an attorney; Carter Page doesn't have one; Kushner hasn't retained one; Roger Stone just got one.

  1. Manafort has an attorney. Other figures (e.g. J.D. Gordon) don't. Flynn had one long ago, but he was seeking immunity—being pro-active.

(23) (b) Are investigators still in the investigatory phase? Yes. We've seen not one* indictment despite some easy-to-make federal cases.

(24) The feds have Flynn dead to rights on FARA violations and Making False Statements yet they're still in the "asking for docs" phase.

(25) Yes, there's a grand jury in Virginia, but it just sent out its first subpoenas—in a case where it will ultimately send out hundreds.

(26) Indeed, the FIRST THING I did in criminal cases was file a "Motion to Preserve Evidence." When did Congress do that? A few weeks ago.

(27) To underscore that last point: we'd expect this fed case to take SEVERAL YEARS—and Congress took its first step just a few weeks ago.

(28) (c) Have investigators spoken to the witnesses in the case? NO. NOT AT ALL. And note that this case will have hundreds of witnesses.

(29) Consider that Congress is still interviewing THE INVESTIGATORS. Comey twice; Rogers twice; and Brennan. No other attempt has been made.

(30) The closest Congress has come to a SINGLE ACTUAL WITNESS in a case with HUNDREDS of witnesses is Sally Yates. And look what happened.

(31) What happened is ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. We had a dozen MAJOR #Russiagate stories in just twelve days. Total bedlam in Washington, D.C.

(32) What's amazing is, Yates ISN'T a witness in the usual sense. She's a member of law enforcement who (if accidentally) "worked the case."

(33) So how about the now-defunct FBI investigation, the one that preceded the JUST-STARTED Special Counsel investigation? Same story there.

(34) While the FBI investigation was secretive, we have NO evidence Trump, Pence, Page, Manafort, Gordon, Kushner—etc—have been interviewed.

(35) Of course, Flynn is, here, the Yates-like exception. He WAS interviewed. What happened? ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE all over Washington, D.C.

(36) So a clear trend emerges: (i) we are VERY EARLY in the Russia investigation; (ii) ANY forward movement leads to ABSOLUTE BEDLAM in D.C.

(37) (d) What docs or other hard evidence do investigators have, or have they seized, if they've done hardly any interviews with witnesses?

(38) This we can't know. BUT we DO know there have been NO reported domestic raids, seizures or voluntarily disclosed document caches (yet).

  1. There may be efforts to find hard-to-get internationally held documentary evidence, but this'd be the SLOWEST part of an investigation.

(40) Here too we find Yates- and Flynn-like EXCEPTIONS: namely, (i) leaks to the media, and (ii) surveillance resulting from FISA warrants.

(41) The ONE warrant that we KNOW has returned evidence...caused ALL HELL TO BREAK LOOSE, as it proved Mike Flynn committed multiple crimes.

(42) Just so, the leaks that have made the news caused...ALL HELL TO BREAK LOOSE, as they proved Don Trump committed Obstruction of Justice.

(43) So here too the trend is intact: ALL SIGNS say we're in the VERY EARLY STAGES of #Russiagate, but when ANYTHING is found it's ELECTRIC.

(44) What an experienced attorney will conclude is (a) we must IGNORE anyone, I mean ANYONE, who pretends we're LATE in this investigation.

(45) And (b), EVERY TIME investigators take even the SMALLEST STEP in their investigation, they find a MOUNTAIN of evidence of criminality.

(46) So what we progressives need is cognitive dissonance: we must accept that there's a long way to go AND that all signs suggest CRIMES.

(47) We must TUNE OUT sensationalistic major media, grandstanding Congressmen, social media tongue-wagging, and right-wing fake news/trolls.

(48) What we get in return is NEAR-ASSURANCE this President WILL be IMPEACHED. It'll simply take, unfortunately, a LONG time to get there.

(49) Because the GOP knows this, we must ALSO defend against their Plan B: trying to get back to business as usual as Mueller does his work.

(50) So THIS is our task: we must AT ONCE keep pressure high; expect a long haul; stay optimistic; and expect success. And then we WIN. /end

PerkingFaintly · 24/05/2017 13:58

Amber Rudd is "irritated" at the US leaking:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40026413

And is at looking at whether information-sharing with the US has caused an actual problem.

Which must be making both the Russians and Daesh jolly happy.Angry

cozietoesie · 24/05/2017 14:17

That lengthy post is pretty darned telling. It's a long haul sure enough.

  1. Smile
RedToothBrush · 24/05/2017 14:35

Mrs Rudd might be annoyed.

But this has happened since she got annoyed:

Richard Engel‏ @RichardEngel
A US intel official tells @nbcnews members of bomber's family warned sec officials about him in past, that he was “dangerous.”
Richard Engel‏ @RichardEngel
A US intel official tells @nbcnews bomber ID’d by bank card in his pocket. Confirmed by facial id.
Richard Engel @RichardEngel
A US intel official tells @nbcnews UK bomber likely "had help" making “big and sophisticated bomb.”

Being reported on Guardian Live feed.

cozietoesie · 24/05/2017 15:38

Some selected politico reading on healthcare - including the interesting quote 'We're moving from uncertainty to instability and risky.'

healthcare

cozietoesie · 24/05/2017 16:19

A perspective on 45's current trip.

The world of hurt

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 16:48

Eddie‏
@eddie8374

Follow
More
Eddie Retweeted Christopher Ingraham
He wants to round up muslims and mexicans, wants a huge police force and is praising a genocidal maniac. Hes telling us what's next. #listenEddie added,
Christopher Ing

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 16:49

The Hill‏Verified account @thehill 6m6 minutes ago
More
Forty Senate Democrats urge Trump to stay in the Paris climate deal hill.cm/4gbbFYn

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 16:50

Ilya Marritz‏Verified account @ilyamarritz 5h5 hours ago
Trump's hotel in Soho is planning layoffs, and an end to turn-down service. Biz slow. My story w/ @AndreaWNYC www.wnyc.org/story/trump-soho-plans-layoffs

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 16:51

CNN Politics‏Verified account @CNNPolitics 11m11 minutes ago
More
North Korean nuclear threat is "inevitable" if left unchecked, a top US intel official says cnn.it/2qPFEyd

lionheart · 24/05/2017 16:53

www.independent.co.uk/voices/manchester-attack-isis-al-qaeda-radicalisation-risk-factors-a7753451.html

An interesting read.

I don't understand why the US is still leaking details about this attack, even after being taken to task for it. What is there to gain? Are they trying to show that their Intel is superior in some way?

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 24/05/2017 17:08

Just heard on Radio 4 news - The Pope has presented SCROTUS with a copy of an encyclical he wrote blaming Man for Climate Change

Grin Grin Grin

cozietoesie · 24/05/2017 17:13

I think he gives everyone copies of things he wrote - but I believe that 45 refused to answer a question about whether he'd discussed the issue with the Pontiff. Smile

cozietoesie · 24/05/2017 17:14

Things to look out for in this afternoon's report.

CBO score

AcrossthePond55 · 24/05/2017 17:19

What Seth Abramson says above is pretty much what I've been thinking. We are no where near impeachment. In fact, at this point I don't think Scrotus will be impeached. There simply isn't the time. The most we can hope for is that he will be 'legislatively paralyzed' as the investigation ramps up with subpoenas, hearings, witnesses, and warrants that start pointing towards the WH. And that GOP legislators won't want to be tainted by association with him/his agenda AND that 2018 will return a Dem majority to the House and/or Senate to further tie his tiny, little hands. He'll be a one term Pres for sure. Either because he resigns (which I doubt) or because he's unre-electable.

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 17:19

Oh yes, I am awaiting the train wreck that is the CBO score.

I'm also going to take a shot in the dark here and suggest that the guy that is demanding the ethics paperwork, despite the WH being pissed about it, is likely going to be the next person fired.

BoreOfWhabylon · 24/05/2017 17:22

Bigly anti-Trump protest in Belgium now Smile

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 17:23

John Kelly‏Verified account @jkelly3rd 5m5 minutes ago
Document: Trump's hotels will not track all foreign profits usat.ly/2rUvERU via @usatoday

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 17:24

Bradd Jaffy‏Verified account @BraddJaffy 1m1 minute ago
More
Bradd Jaffy Retweeted Bradd Jaffy
Per @AriMelber, experts say this increases Trump legal exposure—courts will ultimately decide if this money is an unconstitutional emolument

GingerIvy · 24/05/2017 17:26

@educatorsresist is live tweeting the DeVos hearing. It's interesting.

Lweji · 24/05/2017 17:31

suggest that the guy that is demanding the ethics paperwork, despite the WH being pissed about it, is likely going to be the next person fired.

Maybe that's what they want. :)

See:

Is it still possible to honorably serve in the Trump administration?

www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/05/24/is-it-still-possible-to-honorably-serve-in-the-trump-administration/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.30c8d53164e3

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