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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think friend is BU to think all Brexiteers are racist?

109 replies

Soodoenim · 19/05/2017 11:02

Have NC as this is outing. We both voted remain. Friend, who was previously not particularly engaged with politics (neither was I), became v passionate about the EU debate.

Ever since, she is really scathing about anyone who voted leave. She thinks they're all racist and possibly of low intelligence. I've tried to explain to her that yes, there probably are some people who voted for racist " get rid of the bloody immigrants" reasons but there are many others who I'm sure had very valid reasons for voting leave. She just won't have it and says even if they didn't primarily vote for racist reasons, they're "obviously ok with the anti-immigrant stance of the leave campaign". I said that actually some might be really uncomfortable with that but still felt conpelled to vote leave for other reasons that were important to them that over-rode that.I suggested to her that leavers might think she's an idiot for voting the way she did but she things there's no valid reason they could think that. I've also said it's like her voting Labour and thinking that anyone who votes for another party is stupid but she thinks it's not the same.

Obviously I disagree with the leave decision but I do respect other people's right to a different opinion than mine. TBH she's getting on my nerves. She now judges EVERYONE based on how they voted in the referendum and where possible will avoid mixing with any leavers.

How can I make her see that she's being unreasonable?

OP posts:
WrongTrouser · 19/05/2017 12:25

Some of the comments on this thread illustrate the way the word "racist" has hugely drifted in its meaning.

It used to mean thinking people of other racists are inferior and treating them accordingly.

Now, for many people it means "disagrees with me on immigration" or "has concerns about the current level of immigration".

Of course, by this subtle redefinition of the word "racist" anyone who voted leave because of immigration can be called a racist. But it doesn't really mean anything. It just means they disagree with the current level of immigration.

Which is a shame because "racist" used to be quite a useful word to describe a phenomenon which needs to be fought against.

Incidentally, numerous studies over the last few years have shown that, in fact, 70-80% of the population of the UK ( with a slightly lower % amongst ethnic minorities, but not much) think that current levels of immigration are too high.

THEY ARE ALL RACISTS!!!!

WoodPigeonInFlight · 19/05/2017 12:29

But I suspect all racists voted leave.

For goodness sake, please provide evidence that not one racist either didn't vote or voted remain, or alternatively get a grip.

allegretto · 19/05/2017 12:29

What makes me laugh is the claim - from some remainers - that people who voted to leave the EU didn't know what they were doing, and didn't know what they were voting for; but of course everyone who voted to remain DID know what they were doing. PMSL.

Remainers were voting for the status quo. No-one knows what Brexit means exactly even now so I agree with this in part.

Hoppinggreen · 19/05/2017 12:30

don't know if ALL of them are racist but the ones I know certainly are

Fliptophead · 19/05/2017 12:32

Some aren't racist. They just didn't care that their vote would disproprtionately hurt poc and minorities. Bit like 'not seeing colour'. So not wearing a klan hat but still a bit of a shit.

TheNaze73 · 19/05/2017 12:34

I think most people who voted to leave, mostly did it about wind farms....

WrongTrouser · 19/05/2017 12:44

Interesting how quickly OPs question has derailed into one or two line insults at leavers.

KKK? Really? People voted according to what they thought was the best. And that makes them fascists?

Can I ask those chucking the insults, what good you think this is doing for anyone? What is your purpose, or does it just get out some anger or perhaps make you feel morally superior?

And please, can all those chucking the "racist" slur around tell me if that applies to the 70-80% of the population who feel current levels of immigration is too high?

Are 70-80% of the population racist, or is it only if you vote leave that your unhappiness with current levels of immigration magically transforms into racism? Please do explain.

user1486062886 · 19/05/2017 12:50

If being concerned about high levels of uncontrollable immigration, putting more strain on a struggling public services and housing makes me a racist, then I must be a racist. If the government had listened to people's concerns or invested more in the public services etc, I'm sure the vote would have gone the other way. Nobody was listening or acting and this leads to ukip etc rising up, The government (Cam) thought wrongly that the people would never vote to leave and now the government are desperately trying to come up with a plan as no preparatory work was carried out.

TheHiphopopotamus · 19/05/2017 12:52

Arcadia - the opposite is also true; the EU is continuously evolving and what you vote for today is not how it may be in 5-10-20 years. Both sides are taking chances on the unknown

I agree with this actually. I wonder how many people who voted to join the EEC in 1975 foresaw exactly how it would turn out. In fact, I know of at least one relative who voted to join in 75, then voted to leave last year.

Of course, he is now dead to me as he is a racist (despite having a non-EU born spouse who also voted to leave, btw).

Fliptophead · 19/05/2017 12:52

Can I ask those chucking the insults, what good you think this is doing for anyone? What is your purpose, or does it just get out some anger or perhaps make you feel morally superior?

I feel totally superior actually. But if you're upset by a few people saying 'racist' imagine how I feel when I read my town's Facebook page and I get to hear my neighbours say there are too many immigrants (my kids) taking away from their (worthy) children. It's not actually very nice to move to a country legally (not because you love it but because you met your partner and started a family) to suddenly have half the country say they'd really prefer it if you fucked off home.

So no I'm not really concerned about hurting the feelings of those who voted out. Nor is it any longer my job to worry about 'unity' as they made the call I was no longer apart if their union. Not me.

Oh and one last thing when your town that's currently blaming immigrants for the shit state that its public facilities are in instead of the fucking tories and ukippers it voted for it is really galling.

specialsubject · 19/05/2017 12:56

Remember the unedifying spectacle of Nigel f arage and bob geldof yelling at each other?

If we are judged by the company we keep, then everyone who voted in the referendum is a dick.

FanjoForTheMammaries · 19/05/2017 12:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scottishdiem · 19/05/2017 12:58

They weren't being racist. Xenophobic and nativist yes. Racist. No.

The issue for me is that almost all issues to do with international co-operation, joint areas of jurisdiction, partnership agreements and working together on terror etc can be revised if you are inside the club.

The issue of immigration, only speaking English on public transport and not having nasty foreign foods can only be dealt with by leaving.

So taking the xenophobic and nativist route and leaving does make them xenophobic and nativist.

I could also point out that all the tropes about the impact of immigration were based on lies so I'd still say no racist but merely idiots as well.

No stats show a negative impact on the UK due to immigration. Unless you want to see them because you dont want the immigrants here.

I just wish people would be honest and say they dont like Polish people (etc.) here because they want the UK to only ever be based on UK things and people.

theresamustgo · 19/05/2017 12:58

on the nail Fliptophead!

Sittinonthefloor · 19/05/2017 13:00

All the people that I personally know who voted leave (and told everyone) are racist. The way they talked about it all wasSadSadAngry All 3 were old, white rich men. With pissed off wives, dcs and gdcs!

53rdWay · 19/05/2017 13:00

Does Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech count as racist, or was that just Legitimate Concerns About Immigration?

Fliptophead · 19/05/2017 13:00

Btw Nigel farafge the notoriuosly non racist gentleman who hate immigration also has a foreign wife. People make exceptions when it works for them.

WoodPigeonInFlight · 19/05/2017 13:01

Can I ask those chucking the insults, what good you think this is doing for anyone? What is your purpose, or does it just get out some anger or perhaps make you feel morally superior?

I feel totally superior actually. But if you're upset by a few people saying 'racist' imagine how I feel when I read my town's Facebook page and I get to hear my neighbours say there are too many immigrants (my kids) taking away from their (worthy) children. It's not actually very nice to move to a country legally (not because you love it but because you met your partner and started a family) to suddenly have half the country say they'd really prefer it if you fucked off home.

No, its not. I actually don't believe most leave voters want anyone to "fuck off home" (please see numerous polls on EU nationals being allowed full rights to remain).

But if the views of other people make you feel superior to me and other leave voters who don't have those views, well, what can I say.is, intolerance and bigotry can come in many forms.

So no I'm not really concerned about hurting the feelings of those who voted out. Nor is it any longer my job to worry about 'unity' as they made the call I was no longer apart if their union. Not me.

Please see above, no, they didn't.

Whiterabbitears · 19/05/2017 13:01

Some of my colleagues also said that they were voting leave so we would keep Muslims out and send them 'home'. I found that depressing because it felt like it was more of a BNP stance rather than concerns about the EU.

scottishdiem · 19/05/2017 13:02

What is your purpose, or does it just get out some anger or perhaps make you feel morally superior?

Yes I am angry. I now live in Dublin as opposed to Scotland. My dad has dementia and we would rather be there helping with him. But my DP is not British and the country is getting worse when it comes to accepting that good solid white British people can actually fall in love and marry non-white foreigners. If Brexit actually meant a restructuring of immigration, retaking control so that immigrants from all over the world were treated equally we might have stayed. But the Tory manifesto shows the true depths of hate that Brexiters have for foreigners.

WrongTrouser · 19/05/2017 13:04

I could also point out that all the tropes about the impact of immigration were based on lies so I'd still say no racist but merely idiots as well.

Scottish So that's the 70-80% of the population who believe these lies and are idiots them.

Are you one of the small percentage of people who have the brains to see though the lies? Perhaps you could form a small elite who could take the running of the country out of the hands of the idiots to save us from our stupidity?

TheJammyDodger · 19/05/2017 13:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rale124 · 19/05/2017 13:07

May has racist policies? Bollocks.

Wanting better immigration controls like the rest of the world has outside of Europe so industry can't flood the labour market in an attempt to drive down wages and working conditions is racist now?

And we're guilble ones?...ha.

JassyRadlett · 19/05/2017 13:08

I just wish people would be honest and say they dont like Polish people (etc.) here because they want the UK to only ever be based on UK things and people.

My BIL did me this favour, by telling me he voted leave 'because of all the immigrants, it's out of control' following up hastily with 'i don't mean immigrants like you, Jassy.'

By which he meant white and anglophone. Nowt to do with my level of education or economic contribution. Just 'looks like me and doesn't talk too funny'.

As I remarked to DH, it's helpful when people so helpfully identify their racism for you.

Looneytune253 · 19/05/2017 13:10

That's awful!! I had a (rather normal) friend who ranted about the leave voters and how racist and uneducated they were. Tbh i was devastated. The rant was so full of vitriol and I had voted leave (which she didn't know about) and I was far from the names she called us. We do still speak but it hasn't been the same since. I think sometimes she genuinely does think that of me and the others (the majority of people) and it's an awful feeling, that couldn't be further from the truth.