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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think Vogue WIlliams should be invited to Pippa's wedding and feel for Spencer ?

586 replies

Radyward · 19/05/2017 07:03

This hoopla / wedding/ media circus has reportedly 300 guests tomorrow. The reason meghan markle is now invited is because Pippa wants to be invited to Harry 's day if there is one-just my tuppence. Spencer is her brother in law to be fgs . To say Vogue is media obsessed is pot calling kettle ( just surmising the reason for it ) also according to the media donna air as james middletons girlfriend will be there
id say with the carry on with this wedding luxury throne loos etc mrs matthews must be shivering in her shoes as to the daughter in law she is getting . Pippa is being portrayed as a right princess but its the Matthews who are seriously wealthy. Talk about pippa landing on her feet. How are the Middletons so well off now when neither of the parents came from Wealth?. Kate and pippa have really made good.

OP posts:
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UrsulaPandress · 19/05/2017 11:17

And what first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?

Terfing · 19/05/2017 11:20

I do hope they let us have a few pictures?!? They could sell a few for charity or something?

PhilODox · 19/05/2017 11:29

Oh dear, is this actually a Stealth "Sharon" thread?

McTufty · 19/05/2017 11:41

I think these stories about Pippa's wedding are all made up bullshit. I feel very sorry for her.

I am a massive hypocrite because I am engaging in the gossiping but I actually agree with this. She seems to have just got on with it and the press are printing whatever they like, making her out to be behaving in a ridiculous way - e.g. Requiring guests to bring 2 outfits - when there seems to be little evidence of any of it.

I don't think she will be upstaged by anyone and I don't think she upstaged Kate. I have never felt anyone has upstaged a bride.

BalloonSlayer · 19/05/2017 11:44

The point is that you cannot "trace" genealogy back through illegitimate births to a putative father because there is no proof of paternity whatsoever.

Historians generally agree that Mary Boleyn's children were not Henry's, as he did not acknowledge them (I have never seen that picture before, is that really Catherine Carey?) and he did usually acknowledge his illegitimate children; having said that, Henry had a VERY good reason not to make it common knowledge that he had been shagging Anne's sister. Funny how he wailed loud and long that her having had (allegedly) sex with his brother before him made his marriage to Catherine unproductive son-wise, yet he never made that connection about himself and Mary and Anne. Hmm

I digress . . . no Michael Middleton can't trace himself straight back to Henry VIII with any credibility whatsoever. Because Henry had no legally recognised heirs after Mary, Elizabeth and Edward, and they all died without issue. Illegitimate heirs mean nothing whatsoever, as nothing can be proven. I may be a direct descendant of Henry myself < twirls ginger moustache > but there is no way whatsoever of proving it, unless they dig him up and do DNA tests.

LullabelleBates · 19/05/2017 11:47

How do you know Vogue has not been invited? Because Daily Mail said so?!!

RoseandVioletCreams · 19/05/2017 11:50

Blaaah really interesting article I too had a crush on Liz I as a pre teen Smile

I think all wedding plans should be halted until this kink in family tree is sorted out.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 19/05/2017 11:53

Has it been mentioned that Vogue used to be engaged to the waste of space that is Brian McFadden?!

For that reason alone, I wouldn't invite her.

Batteriesallgone · 19/05/2017 12:37

I doubt Spencer wanted her invited.

The 'my girlfriend wasn't invited, I'm so lonely, and today has just been so romantic...' line is much more productive when seeking to get laid than

The 'come on let's hide from my girlfriend and shag in the toilets' line.

BillSykesDog · 19/05/2017 12:43

BalloonSlayer you are mixing up genealogy with the principles of hereditary monarchy. As far as who could inherit the throne goes that only includes legitimate heirs. Except in the case of Henry the VIII it was absolutely impossible according to the law of the time for both of his daughters and he had them both declared illegitimate. In Henry's case what matters as far as inheritance of the monarchy was that they were named in the 3rd succession act, not legitimacy.

Henry only acknowledged one bastard, Henry Fitzroy, but probably had several more. To say he acknowledged his bastards is incorrect. He only acknowledged one and only then because he feared he would never have a legitimate son and was considering passing the succession to him. He didn't do it routinely.

Genealogy is more to do with genetic descent and legality. We can only prove (well, almost always) that people are descended from their maternal line. Paternity is much more difficult. As we can't routinely DNA test everybody assumptions are made based on who the legal father is (who the mother was married to or who recognised them as a bastard). But there is often doubt over that. There have however been recent legal cases over aristocratic titles which have confirmed that DNA descent takes precendent over believed or legal parentage.

There's been a lot of debate about the Carey children's parentage. The general gist of current consensus is that her son was probably not Henry's but her daughter Catherine was. This is based on knowledge of the dates their affair occurred and the customary expectation at the time that a King's mistress would not sleep with any other men including her husband.

So, yes, it is fair to say from a genealogical point of view that Kate Middleton is, on the balance of probabilities, traceable back to Henry VIII.

supermoon100 · 19/05/2017 12:44

Invisible kitten, thank you so much for explaining who every one is and their relation to each other. I was getting a tad confused!

BillSykesDog · 19/05/2017 12:45

She was married to McFadden

BalloonSlayer · 19/05/2017 13:02

I don't disagree with you, Bill,

I disagree with the notion that:

"The general gist of current consensus is that her son was probably not Henry's but her daughter Catherine was"

plus

"Kate Middleton is, on the balance of probabilities, traceable back to Henry VIII."

equals

"Mr Middletons family can be traced straight back to Henry VIII."

It just doesn't follow. "Probabilities" and "general gists" do not lead to absolute statements like the above, which is what I was objecting to.

All that can be said with any integrity is that Middletons can be traced back as far as Catherine Carey, whose parentage is doubtful as her father may have been Henry VIII instead of the man who claimed her as his daughter.

Dozer · 19/05/2017 13:11

Pippa's DH to be is being VU to have such a misogynist, bullying tosser of a brother as best man.

Brogadaccio · 19/05/2017 13:32

I'm unusual in that I'd heard of Vogue but not Spencer. Gather Spencer is a bit of a Callum Best.

Brogadaccio · 19/05/2017 13:37

I know the real reason VW not invited. She and MM both divorced, neither of them hanging their heads in shame over it, they would get on like a house on fire. Both smart with their own careers and both have spoken out about various injustices and both despite being within that very narrow band of the acceptable femininity have spoken out as feminists.

Pippa fears a future with MM and VW looking over Pip's shoulder to find each other at family occasions. Vogue will somehow meet the Queen, and win her over.

RoseandVioletCreams · 19/05/2017 14:24

Loving the fact this thread has descended from tabloid crap into a high brow debate over Middleton Genology and Henry VIII illegitimate heirs Grin love MN Grin

Sammysquiz · 19/05/2017 14:30

She is a bratty, high maintenance diva who is constantly trying to keep up with her sister

What's that based on? What you've read in the Daily Mail?

Wasn't Vogue one of the Gladiators?!Grin

Jimcanna · 19/05/2017 14:31

I can't believe people talk about this shite like it's fact.

Dozer · 19/05/2017 14:34

I do really want to see the dress, cake and guests' outfits Blush

Dozer · 19/05/2017 14:34

And Flowers

Theromanempire · 19/05/2017 14:35

Love the 6 degrees of separation from Kerry Katona to Pippa Middleton...and even the Royal Family Grin

I honestly believe that the main gripe against Vogue is her ex-marriage to Bryan McFadden (and by default, her connection to Kerry Katona) - I do think this has labelled her as 'trash' and there is no way Pippa would want such trash at her wedding!

Can just imagine AIBU thread from either party Grin

AIBU to not be invited to my boyfriend's brother's wedding and I am sure it is because both my ex-husband and the mother of his children are classed by the bride as common and trashy?

AIBU to not invite my future BIL's girlfriend to the wedding because both her ex-husband and the mother of his children are both really common and trashy?

Jimcanna · 19/05/2017 14:41

Jesus, spencer is a reality tv star. That's pretty trashy.

user1471134011 · 19/05/2017 14:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 19/05/2017 14:52

"On a serious note this is Anglo-Irish relations incident. Vogue is fierce famous.This may be the real reason we gave the UK nil points last week."

Grin