AIBU that VAT on school fees makes no economical sense?

[fuckwitery]

Trying to research what it costs the state to put a child through school each year. Figures I've found show between £6 - £8k. We pay £13k per DC per year. That's prep, so will be more for senior school. So at the mo introducing VAT on these fees would add £2,600 to the state coffers. £4k for senior school.

We, and lots of others who just about manage to pay for private schooling, will be forced to take their children out. Therefore it's a NET loss for the state?

Or am I missing something.

Dapplegrey - a mixture of state comprehensive where they had an excellent education. First two entirely state educated with very, very good outcomes then the next three part state comprehensive transferred into top independent. Last one entirely top 10 independent boarding. The independent allowed them to continue high level extra curricular achievement alongside exam preparation without the stress of me having treatment for cancer. They could continue to enjoy their teenage years and I could have off days when I didn't need to still do school run and after school programme. I guess we did prostitute our principles for the good of our own but it felt like a pragmatic solution. I would absolutely think all state subsidies and charitable status should stop and VAT be imposed. The advantages were very, very evident not in quality of teaching (most would be eaten alive in average comp) but in network and elite peer group.

But the suggestion that people who work hard earn a lot and vice versa is not only incorrect but reprehensible.

I cannot see how you have worked this out from the thread that anyone suggested that people on lower incomes don't work hard

I think the VAT on school fees would make the inequalities in education even greater. Because only the genuinely rich would be able to afford it. The middle-rankers who already sacrifice cars, holidays etc would be priced out.

So an even smaller elite than now would benefit.

To make it fair perhaps those who can afford it should be paying into state education. Everyone over a certain threshold pays 5k a year and pays for their place.

VAT on schooling is ludicrous, if it's going to happen it should affect everyone.

JustAnotherPoster00

No, googled the laffer curve which I mentioned. There is a point of optimum taxation for maximum tax reciepts and it is not 1% and it is not 100%. We know that 45 makes more than 50% so why would we increase it.

I said estimated and we will see what it is when the manifesto is published but media have speculated 60 because to make the amount of money that labour say they will make from the tax, that's what it would need to be (assuming that nobody restructured their finances or made different decisions about whether to take on promotions/extra hours/go part time etc.

For a lot of mothers the difference between being part time and full time is nothing or sometimes they earn less full time because of childcare costs. (I say mothers because they often are the lower earner, but obviously it could be dads). Just think if taxes were higher it would change that decision, and tax reciepts would fall.

Purchase tax was the consumption tax before we signed up to the EU VAt, which remains in force today. It was abolished, decades ago. And is just as relevant to VAT as Morton's Fork.

And as I said, post Brexit, we will be free to set out own consumtion tax, which might mimic VAT, or might be totally different and which could be a brand new luxury tax.

But for as long as we are in the EU, we simply can't tax exempt items (couldn't at all if we had opted to Bremain; not worth the fuss in kicking minor hornet's nests during exit negotiations because time for a new tax is so close).

That's why I said this thread is pro-Brexit, because many posters are advocating something that can only happen when we leave.

Rhayader I wonder what the link between the curve and enforcement would be, at 50% you actively start collecting perhaps

VAT is (generally) considered to be for luxuries. Not getting into why it's on heating fuels and Sanpro though....

But private education is a 'luxury' is you consider children are entitled to a free education.

It's not about enforcement. These people are not for the most part evading taxes. They are just choosing not to do things that are taxable.

If you only made £60 after tax for an extra shift, but childcare cost £65, would you do it? Of course not. If taxes were lower, and you would earn 80 after tax, then you might think about the situation a bit differently.

"I wonder if there will be a 7% swing to the Conservative Party because the private school parents will be panicked into voting Tory? If so, well done Jeremy (again)."

I love this comment. It assumes that most private school parents were planning on voting Labour, perhaps they were worried about what a Tory government might do. After all, only a few months ago, Michael Gove was suggesting that there should be VAT on private school fees and that private schools should pay business rates.

*I think the VAT on school fees would make the inequalities in education even greater. Because only the genuinely rich would be able to afford it. The middle-rankers who already sacrifice cars, holidays etc would be priced out.

So an even smaller elite than now would benefit.*

I agree entirely with this statement. There are many people who sacrifice holidays, cars etc to chose to give their children this type of education. 20% may just be too big a rise to cope with and thus the gap gets wider as Grumpy says.

Someone earlier said that childcare has VAT - this is incorrect.

There are many people who sacrifice holidays, cars etc

What do you suggest people who only earn minimum wage do to get their children into private school? What do you feel is the reason they arent able to currently send their children to private school?

OP perhaps you could petition the school to lower their fees to be more inclusive of people in your socioeconomic cohort

JustAnotherPoster00

There are bursaries and scholarships available. Two of my cousins won fully funded places to a top public school (30odd thousand a year) and both their parents were unemployed for a while. They are now in low paid jobs (the parents, not the dc).

Just

do you believe everyone should be paid the same no matter their ability, experience, expertise, level of education, or training?

scaevola

I have no idea about VAT, just what i am reading now

Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. It replaced the Purchase Tax, which was a fairly complex system that had many different rates

So it appears from a casual read that it did replace the purchase tax

Really not being snide or sarky but you are obviously better educated on it than i am so if you could explain further how it worked i would be grateful.

More than happy for you to pm me as its just for my information, and an explanation of Mortons fork would be great...i have googled it but my brain has given up today and is refusing to work

Thanks

do you believe everyone should be paid the same no matter their ability, experience, expertise, level of education, or training?

Where have I implied that?

"I wonder if there will be a 7% swing to the Conservative Party because the private school parents will be panicked into voting Tory? If so, well done Jeremy (again)."

It was Gove that mooted it first wasn't it? So the Tory's may well bring it in anyway.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/private-schools-pay-tax-michael-gove-vat-boost-state-education-charity-status-funding-mic-a7597126.html

Because you made a nearly comparison.

*narky

Fucking phone.

Fuckwitery- it's never actually said on MN because even the people who actually believe it know how ridiculous it sounds out loud.

justanotherposter
Yes you're spot on. Most of the parents I know will simply get in and earn the extra 20 percent. If the vat charge on school fees comes in I will probably lay someone off and do their work myself in the evenings.

Would people also like to see VAT on University tuition?

The world isn’t a fair place. Some people have more money, send their kids to private schools, some people have less money and don’t. I have no problem with people sending their kids to private schools, why should they get a tax break for doing so?

I pay VAT on most of what I spend my money on, I wouldn’t say I’m glad about it but I quite like having some of life’s little luxuries like a Health service, police force, defence force etc. I have company car(not as posh as it sounds) and I pay huge amounts of tax for it. Obviously I could opt out and buy a Range Rover which is a better and if the government would like to lop VAT off that for it would be great but I’m not sure I could park it outside the food bank round the corner with a clear conscience.