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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU that VAT on school fees makes no economical sense?

625 replies

fuckwitery · 15/05/2017 15:19

Trying to research what it costs the state to put a child through school each year. Figures I've found show between £6 - £8k. We pay £13k per DC per year. That's prep, so will be more for senior school. So at the mo introducing VAT on these fees would add £2,600 to the state coffers. £4k for senior school.

We, and lots of others who just about manage to pay for private schooling, will be forced to take their children out. Therefore it's a NET loss for the state?

Or am I missing something.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 15/05/2017 17:35

I suppose it shows some vestiges of conscience when private educators have to convince themselves that everyone could afford it too if they stopped spending all their money on rags, flat screen tellies and vodka...........Grin

BertrandRussell · 15/05/2017 17:37

Oh and who buy into the myth that working hard correlates to earning lots of money. And vice versa.

Sillysausages007 · 15/05/2017 17:38

Who on earth thinks that children that go to state schools are "plebs"? I certainly don't. Neither do any of my friends as far as I'm aware. I wouldn't dream of suggesting such a thing!

Justbreathing · 15/05/2017 17:41

what cormorant says, I would say it's more likely to be even less than 1 in 3
there are 615,000 in fee paying education.
do you really think 205,000 are going to leave?

BertrandRussell · 15/05/2017 17:42

It's such a pain in the neck when somebody uses a word like "pleb". It's usually only one person on a thread like this, but all the private school fans can focus on it and it's a complete distraction.

There are private school parents who think like that- I know some. But characterizing them all, or even most of them like that is foolish.

Fruitcorner123 · 15/05/2017 17:42

I imagine they have done their research and think that the net gain would be worth it because most people would still pay the fees if they believe in private education for their kids but yes some will have to take their children out of private if they can't afford it. Thats just the way private schools work, they price certain people out.

icy121 · 15/05/2017 17:48

It just taps into the hatred that people in this country have for those who can afford what they cannot. Most of Labour's policies are about taxing those bastards who work hard but earn more than you

This, pretty much.

BertrandRussell · 15/05/2017 17:50

Icy-do you really think that working hard always means you earn more money?

Justbreathing · 15/05/2017 17:53

I don't hate people that can afford more than me. I believe we should all contribute to society and if we decide to opt out then that's up to us, but we shouldn't get a tax break on it.

The whole point about the fee paying sector is it's fee paying! it excludes people.
the family who can just afford it might be fine, but what about the family that can't afford it by 20%... they can't go...just a fact of life.

that's the point of them being fee paying

what if they put the price up by 20%

this is called capitalism.

The government double taxes us on most things, that's part of our society.

YOU might not think it's fair, but that's the way it goes.

You might flip the coin and say, why should the British public LOSE all the tax that you would contribute if you spent it on other things instead of TAX free private education

GogoGobo · 15/05/2017 17:56

I doubt many people with kids in fee paying schools will pull them out if vat is applied to the fees. Once you see the experience your children have at a good fee paying school compared to State most would do anything to keep them there, me included.

peppatax · 15/05/2017 17:57

I believe in private school for my children but 20% on top of what I pay is just unaffordable even if I cut back to absolute basics. That's where my children would then be at a disadvantage if we are struggling to pay bills but prioritising their education which we could get free.

The point still stands though that all it would do would increase the private/state gap even further as only the very wealthy could afford to privately educate and would continue to do so regardless of any Government policy.

BertrandRussell · 15/05/2017 17:58

Yes- money does buy lots of good stuff.

ghostyslovesheets · 15/05/2017 17:58

oh FFS I was being facetious !
My kids go to state school and I work in them!

Kursk · 15/05/2017 18:00

BertrandRussell

I certainly believe that, and that has been my experience of life. If I have wanted something I have worked for it.

I know some people are lucky, and they just seem to get everything they want, but I am not one of those people.

scaevola · 15/05/2017 18:02

Try can't impose VAT - as that's an EU tax and education is specifically exempt. They can however introduce a tax like VAT after Brexit, at whatever rate they think will produce the fetch they want - so increased revenue, but short of causing an (expensive) outflow into the state sector.

So possible from March 19 onwards - realistically not before Sept 19

peppatax · 15/05/2017 18:03

You might flip the coin and say, why should the British public LOSE all the tax that you would contribute if you spent it on other things instead of TAX free private education

You could easily use this argument against why being a SAHP is bad for the country from an economic perspective. In fact, it's funny how people begrudge otherparents paying for private school but have no issue in giving up jobs that pay more than private school fees and therefore they pay no income tax or use services to employ people who also pay tax.

Justbreathing · 15/05/2017 18:05

peppatax
private/state gap is already huge.I doubt it will affect it that much, and the benefits might be worth it.
If you think you're not in the top sphere of society financially, however you pay then you're not that in touch with real earnings.
So why do you think you deserve a tax break on how you chose to spend your spare money?

meditrina · 15/05/2017 18:05

"It's way less than 7%"

Over all age groups - not many at primary level, rather more at secondary. 20% of sixth formers.

And of course if they include early years, that's a big increase to nursery/pre-school fees. Which I should imagine is also a proportion way more than 7%.

All currently relying on the same EU VAT exemption at present. Devil in the detail here.

peppatax · 15/05/2017 18:05

Sorry meant to add - can afford to give up a job but not afford to pay the fees

BertrandRussell · 15/05/2017 18:07

"I certainly believe that, and that has been my experience of life. If I have wanted something I have worked for it."

So someone doing 3 cleaning jobs to make ends meet just needs to work harder to be able to send their child to private school?

peppatax · 15/05/2017 18:09

So why do you think you deserve a tax break on how you chose to spend your spare money?

Actually I wouldn't have considered private school before but DD didn't get into any of the three outstanding primaries within a mile, one of which being the catchment school, and got placed in a school in special measures 3 miles away. Hence why I can understand the dilemma people have and how private school is not just for the very wealthy. There are a number of parents at DD's school that ended up in the same position and in most cases they are only children with both parents working full time in demanding jobs to be able to afford it.

Sammysquiz · 15/05/2017 18:12

There's some good example of straw-man fallacies on here. If someone says they earned a lot of money by working hard, this does not equate to saying people who do not earn a lot of money don't work hard!

WhyOhWine · 15/05/2017 18:12

In answer to this:

"I sent my eldest DS to a private school. We went without holidays and other luxuries to pay for the fees.
Our neighbour could have easily afforded to do the same, but chose to spend his cash on two holidays a year, nice cars and a full kitchen refit every other year shock
Why should I be penalised for the way I chose to spend my cash?"

I dont see charging VAT on school fees as penalising you relative to your neighbour - it is simply ensuring that your choice carries the same VAT consequences as theirs - holidays, cars, kitchens etc are subject to VAT.

I have DC at private school btw so I am just responding to this specific argument rather than being in agreement with imposing VAT on school fees!

Kursk · 15/05/2017 18:14

BertrandRussell

Yes, but not in the sense of work more hours. Maybe at that point take a risk and start you own cleaning business.

Justbreathing · 15/05/2017 18:14

peppatax I don't doubt your reasons for it were admirable, but you were able to chose.
If I could afford it I would.
But I still think it should be taxed - I don't see why it shouldn't, if the only argument is it shouldn't because people won't be able to afford it anymore then that just doesn't stack up as a solid argument.
Lot's of people might not be able to afford lots of things, does this mean we should make them tax exempt.