AIBU that VAT on school fees makes no economical sense?

[fuckwitery]

Trying to research what it costs the state to put a child through school each year. Figures I've found show between £6 - £8k. We pay £13k per DC per year. That's prep, so will be more for senior school. So at the mo introducing VAT on these fees would add £2,600 to the state coffers. £4k for senior school.

We, and lots of others who just about manage to pay for private schooling, will be forced to take their children out. Therefore it's a NET loss for the state?

Or am I missing something.

"The ability to give your child privilege by teaching them, talking them to clubs which cost etc is not available nominally or otherwise to all. You are assuming that all adults can read and have the academic ability and availability to help, let alone funds to indulge in activities, look at the Internet or read books."

No I'm not. Hence my use of the word "nominally" would you like me to explain the word to you?. Some children are hugely privileged before they even get to school. We do not want a system that makes that division even worse.

And if it's "just the building" why does anyone send their already privileged child to private school?

I totally agree that the difference between invested parents and those who just send dc to school are far greater than the difference between a private and state education.
We are always hearing on here about how state schools are better in some places than the private.
Then of course there are those that tutor for 11+, and of course those who find religion because the CofE down the road gets better results than the local community school.
Lots of children receive a privileged education, it's relative.

And obviously those parents would be only too hapoy to donate some of the money saved towards things like the pta
Rufus - how do you know they would?

I was being a bit sarky dapple

bert
Lots of reasons!
Wrap around childcare.
Refusal of school to allow child to do choices.
Exclusion of child due to bad behaviour.
Bullying - it's a different school
That's the reasons I've known.

So why don't you stop doing those privilege inducing activities?
After all it would be a step towards equalisation.

It must massively boil your piss to have shelled out 70K on your child's education and then realise that many kids at the local comp have done as well or better

It really doesn't. Other people's descisions regarding education don't concern me. I am well aware that overall children from state schools may do as well or better than children from private schools. I was state educated and I did ok! We made our decision to educate our children privately based on where we felt they'd be happiest within the schools available to us in our area.

If other people don't make the same choices, I don't make any judgements against them, just like I wouldn't expect to be judged myself.

Going back to the VAT issue, I agree that private education is a luxury, and I am very aware that I am extremely fortunate to have had the choice to educate them privately.

All education is a luxury.
It's desirable yes but not absolutely necessary.
we forget, that in many countries this is indeed the case, yet we can't contemplate it being anything other than essential.

Don't see why we shouldn't charge VAT to overseas students at private school.

As I understand it B2C services located in the UK can apply VAT, e.g. For property management or investment advice.

I don't think private schools are any different from having a parent who cuddles you or reads to you or helps you aim very high in university and career terms. They are all just part of the differences between different parents and the luck of the draw. Same with state schools - where I am from originally (NE) we abolished state grammars in about 1970 whereas they still have them in some parts of the country; other parts of the country have high performing comprehensive schools and other parts don't.

(Labout is unlikely to get in so it is very unlikely 20% VAT will be added to school fees. yes, to the person above who said thos abroad don't pay VAT as we will have all seen at air ports (VAT reimubursement) and when I invioce a client in say France I do not add VAT,)

So giving your child through a price legend elitist education system is the same as giving your child a cuddle! It's the luck of the draw! I don't send my child to a private school because I don't believe in it. I inherently don't believe it males for a fairer society

It's more important!
Plus what about girls schools?
Don't they help,with equalising inequality particularly within the STEM field.
Or is it only right to equalise in certain areas but not others?

What about universities?
It's unfair that some students have their fees paid by their parents and some are saddled with debts for many years afterwards.

thinkabou
Schools cannot charge anybody VAT while we are in the EU single market.
End of.

Labout is unlikely to get in so it is very unlikely 20% VAT will be added to school fees.

Voting Conservative may not save you from VAT on school fees either:

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/private-schools-pay-tax-michael-gove-vat-boost-state-education-charity-status-funding-mic-a7597126.html

"I don't think private schools are any different from having a parent who cuddles you"

Blimey. I genuinely have no idea how to respond to that. I thought I had heard everything. But no.

Private education is a luxury and should be taxed as such.

I think it's a very sensible policy.

jelly I'm not sure how much influence Gove has in May's Tory party :-)

bertrand

Dammit bert

Threads gone all weird

People are coming out with some utter bollocks

And i was relying on you to say something...you are much more erudite than me (or i )

I am from a family of psychiatrists. My father used to treat a lot of boarding school survivors. Absence of cuddles and love is much much more important to your future life than any kind of issue over type of school. Surely no one disagrees with me over that? And I write that as a fee paying parent. Give me a child to the age of 7 and I show you the man as the saying goes.... so much about how they turn out is in those early years, not whether they go to the local comp or a fee paying school or are home educated.

jelly I'm not sure how much influence Gove has in May's Tory party :-)

Good. He should not have anything to do with any educational policy as far as I'm concerned.

But May doesn't seem to be completely behind the status quo at the moment either, from the same article:

"In her first major domestic policy announcement as Prime Minister, Theresa May last year said that elite private schools will only be able to maintain charitable status if they set up or sponsor Government-run sister schools."

And this from the famously not-lefty Spectator:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/vat-fees-greedy-private-schools-coming/

Michael Gove enjoyed the benefits of the independent Robert Gordon School in Aberdeen, bless him.

But state schools don't want the disadvantage independent school input confers on them. The MATs set up by universities tend to fail their schools. Mrs May doesn't listen to experts in the field. Grammars are proven to disadvantage children ( or individuals but cohorts) but she's pushing ahead with this as a vote winner. Independents know nothing about state education but she's pushing that idea as a way of keeping independent school subsidy.

The Tories have suggested private schools would need to sponsor other schools but that is a bit unfair.Already charity law has meant the very richest private schools are obliged to do that whilst private schools hardly making ends meet (plenty have closed since 2006 particularly in poor areas) instead have to show less expensive public good such as opening swimming pools to the public, more 100% bursaries for some children etc. The idea all of them must sponsor another school I hope will not be pushed by the Tories as it is not likely to work and I am not sure all state schools want the input anyway.

I am not sure I would go so far as to say involvement by private schools in state schools is always conferring a disadvantage. My son and his friends volunteered at a local state school and as far as I know the children they helped and the teachers did seem to appreciate it. May be they didn't and were just pretending however.