AIBU that VAT on school fees makes no economical sense?

[fuckwitery]

Trying to research what it costs the state to put a child through school each year. Figures I've found show between £6 - £8k. We pay £13k per DC per year. That's prep, so will be more for senior school. So at the mo introducing VAT on these fees would add £2,600 to the state coffers. £4k for senior school.

We, and lots of others who just about manage to pay for private schooling, will be forced to take their children out. Therefore it's a NET loss for the state?

Or am I missing something.

interesting Statistically, my parents were on benefits when I went but I managed to get a top-up from a charity, and worked part-time when I was at university. Absent the charity, I'd have continued, piling up debt though as I've got that kind of as long as I can get the money out the machine mentality...

I agree, a better scholarship system, proper scholarships including living costs, would help more than free tuition for all.

Well I'm worried - we would afford it but if labour win, after the tax increases we will be as much as 20k a year worse off. 8k in school fees vat and about 10k of tax.

Before people say they're playing their little violins for me - my husband left school at 15 and has built up a business employing many people and working super hard. We don't use tax avoidance and pay our way via paye - unusual at his earnings level as we want to pay tax.
We have no inheritance coming, in fact we took on my mums mortgage after she died so my stepdad wasn't homeless.

Our children are happy and settled - no one wants their children to be affected like this - we will cut corners if this happens to find that money but will be unable to afford any other rises.

I'm not sure how the local schools will absorb the extra children - I see it now that I save the government the £6k or whatever per child they should fund. Even the extra tax paid wouldn't reimburse this if I moved my children to state school.

Politics of envy I'm afraid.

please don't draw your own personal line around what is "acceptable privilege" and unacceptable privilege" and then preach your own beliefs to others.*

I am confused

Isnt this the whole point of AIBU

"Increasing class sizes is often impossible - walls are not easy to reconfigure."

Agree with minifingers

Just looked at the local private school

Approximately 30 children per year

So if they moved to the local comp that would mean an increase of 4 per class

And obviously those parents would be only too hapoy to donate some of the money saved towards things like the pta

Dont think we should be pulling children out of a school they enjoy, would be fairer to do it for new entrants to the school

yes, introducing the VAT for new entrants would give people a better chance to re-plan.

Unfortunately the numbers were beyond manageable in my case - mainly because my mum kicked me out so I was self supporting and had nowhere to live in the holidays. Debt wouldn't have stopped me but I couldn't actually access it and not being able to work was a disaster zone. Basically from what I saw the college I applied for didn't seem to outright discriminate in terms of admissions, but the costs and rules once you were there made it impractical for people without a lot of family/financial support behind them.

now I think of it - not being able to work might've been a deal-breaker for me too statistically, I earned a lot from that pt job and also stayed in halls in the holidays as I worked in them. Didn't know that about Oxbridge, thank goodness i wasn't quite clever enough - that must've been appallingly sad for you.

Anecdotally, the one niece I've got that made it to university (out of several) is always coming home broke - she finds it un-supportive, struggles with confidence and has required a lot of extra money.

Clb192 How is it politics of envy for those of us who can afford to send kids private?

£60k rooster not £48k! Yes I agree it's an amazing sum to find per year. Not talking about sympathy, just interested in what the effect on state schools may be - which I agree with you will probably not be very great.

Yes sorry, I should have said 60k. Considering that it is unlikely to have much effect on state school in the future those of us who can't afford 60k a year however frugally we live aren't that interested in the fact that those who can may have to remortgage or reduce their probably massive pension incomes.

i think we should feel sorry for anyone that has to drag their kids out of any school if a government policy is bashed in quickly and without giving people time to re-optimize, personally.

when you stop listening and having sympathy for the hardships in people's lives, there's something wrong. I understand it's a high class problem, but everyone understands uprooting children immediately from schools is not an ideal outcome for any policy.

I think that sort of thing - not being able to stay in halls, rules prohibiting working, etc - are the sort of barriers that get forgotten about. They ran courses to help people from state schools get in, explain the interview processes and so on and seemed to want to help but maybe a lack of awareness and knowledge of the practical barriers that people face.

My personal experience was that all the lecturers and tutors I met seemed aware of the fact that the state school applicants had maybe had to work that bit harder to get the same grades and didn't seem to fall over fawning at the over confident, more 'typical' public school kids.

Think - your comment re VAT for overseas students - as far as I am aware if you are outside the EU you aren't charged VAT?

Stupid question but what percentage is VAT on top of school fees.
I can't seem to find anymore than reports.
Just trying to find out if we will be able to afford to keep dd in school.
I know we don't pay much but we couldn't afford much more if we have to pay extra.

At the moment it's zero and I don't think Labour have stated a percentage so most people are assuming standard 20%

yes, it hadn't occurred to me, these days as well most courses discourage students from working as it affects results. Alright if you have a course with low teaching hours as I did, much harder if you have a lot of teaching hours.

Thank you.

I understand that the gov need to cut welfare and raise money from a variety of places, but it does seem harsh as pp have said that present students may have to be pulled out of their schools.
It looks like my dd school's days are numbered then, I can see some schools closing.

Not all private schools are filled with children from privileged backgrounds, some have bursaries and scholarships which mean they can just afford the fees.
Some actually do provide social mobility, but looks like this will stop too.

I have to vote labour as I will never be a conservative, but might be shooting myself in the foot if this does happen.

gilly

As talkin and others have said this can't come into effect til after a hard brexit...if at all

Gillybeanz it's a bit patronising to suggest that no one in their right mind would send their kids to a crap school, state or private. What about all the people who have no choice. Or what about people like me who believe it's not just about the school it's about family life. And I am very much in my right mind.

Hi

We can afford them - I meant it's politics of envy from the Labour Party - to keep raising taxes and specifically put tax on school fees by adding vat . It just makes you feel like why bother working hard? Why try to grow a business and improve the economy when you pay more and more tax.

Doubt they'll win anyway. I'm no fan of the Tories either - where has the centre left gone? No party seems to occupy this position anymore.

Apologies supermoon I should have said choose not send.

Two of our dc went to crap schools, I wish I'd known about H.ed then as I certainly wouldn't have sent them. I thought I had no choice.

I wouldn't use a state school in our area if I was paid to, as they are all crap.
I do understand that everyone faced with a crap school isn't in a position to H.ed and have no choice.

bert
The ability to give your child privilege by teaching them, talking them to clubs which cost etc is not available nominally or otherwise to all. You are assuming that all adults can read and have the academic ability and availability to help, let alone funds to indulge in activities, look at the Internet or read books.

Perhaps if you are so keen on levelling the playing field, you might be prepared not to indulge in any after school activities, or help your child in any way.
To do otherwise really us the equivalent of sending your child to private school. One type of privilege cannot be acceptable whilst another is not.

Having such mc able parents is the biggest driver of achievement in children.
That's the greater privilege.
Not the building in which you are educated.

head

You are being very disingenuous to say that its just the buildings

Sorry

That the difference is just the building