AIBU that VAT on school fees makes no economical sense?

[fuckwitery]

Trying to research what it costs the state to put a child through school each year. Figures I've found show between £6 - £8k. We pay £13k per DC per year. That's prep, so will be more for senior school. So at the mo introducing VAT on these fees would add £2,600 to the state coffers. £4k for senior school.

We, and lots of others who just about manage to pay for private schooling, will be forced to take their children out. Therefore it's a NET loss for the state?

Or am I missing something.

underneath
Private schooling is most definitely a luxury - that only 7% of the country indulge in.
I note that you are using private school to jump the queue into Grammar.
Nice.
Selective state is OK then

Agatha
I hated my school. I did not thrive. I was lonely. I had to retake most of my exams.
It was very expensive.
My kids have been at comps and had a far better time than I had.
You cannot base everything on what you experienced decades ago.

No one has said Schooling is a luxury

Just that they think that private school may be a luxury

Goodness i am slow

Apparently i cant mumsnet and watch telly at the same time

People that pay for private school education should get a rebate from the government due to the fact that they haven't taken up state school places that they are entitled to. Where we live there are many private schools and the state schools are oversubscribed. If the children at the private schools left and applied to the state schools for their rightful places there would be no places for them! A huge pressure is taken off the state system by private school parents and state school parents should be grateful as it means they have a better chance of getting into good state schools as the person in front of them in the queue has gone elsewhere. Certainly no need to punish them with VAT.

I guess we are shaped by our experiences - be they good or bad. Mine was appalling and it was 20 years ago and I can't move past it when making decisions about education. That's the way it is.

I have no problem with paying for schooling. We struggle and we manage. That's the way it is. It's a non negotiable expense for us. If I had to chose I'd pick it over the mortgage. Truly. I don't mind moving the mortgage to interest only. Or releasing all the equity in my home. I will do anything.

It's a luxury for most - I get it. Honestly. For me it's essential just like the car is for most families (the car we no longer own). I'm not ashamed that I work extra jobs to pay for it and I'm happy to do it. But there is no more money for VAT on the fees for me.

This will cost the country money. The schools are full. Children learn in portacabins. That's normal now. Hell, it was normal in 1988

And what about the people who struggled in school but don't have the money to go private, agatha ?

You're acting like we all have the choice to go private and I'd say 90% of people just don't. Most people could babysit til their eyes fall out and they still wouldn't make even 10% of the fees.

No one is saying you're rolling in it but you are much more fortunate than most.

All those leaving private schools would be accommodated at state schools. Plenty are less popular so should be able to squeeze them in.

50 are you for real? You think there are loads of spaces at state schools. Where?

We're only talking about a proportion of 7% of kids . I'm sure they could be squeezed into less popular schools.

fuckwit
My local secondary has 400 empty spaces.
Its crap mind
but it has lots of spaces.

Schools are closing up and down the land due to a lack of kids.

Not here in the se they couldn't.

But I the proportion of independent school children is not evenly distributed and I imagine that they tend to be in areas where there is pressure on schools (though I don't have stats on this). The reality would be that most would have a cushion and would not be forced out immediately but may change plans for the next stage of schooling or go on a waiting list for a good state place. So you would have a large group of affluent and motivated parents who were willing to buy into catchment areas (now with more resources to do so) or jump through the requisite admissions hoops to get their children in and in certain areas this would push out poorer children from the best state schools. I imagine areas like Edinburgh, Oxford, parts of London would be very much affected and some areas hardly at all. That is conjecture though but I would be surprised if this wasn't the case .

"It's a luxury for most - I get it. Honestly. For me it's essentiaL"

No. It's a luxury for everybody.

fuckwit
Last time I checked, Hampshire was definitely part of the South East.
I can think of four secondary schools in the M27 corridor with well over 1000 empty spaces between them.

Pressure on school places is an artificial construct caused by LEAs not being allowed to open schools where they are needed (with a few minor exceptions like the new ones in Winchester)

"It's a luxury for most - I get it. Honestly. For me it's essential"

You know, it's not. It's just your neurosis leading you by the nose.

i don't quite understand why fee paying schools have charitable status? With the exception of Christ's hospital school and schools servicing high numbers of dyslexics/other SEN who can't get appropriate support in mainstream

Well I think if they do go up 20%, then all those currently paying for private education and still want it, need to get a second job or something. Or get a better paid job. Make cut backs. Should have done better at school really.

Oh wait. That's only the advice for poor people.

Oh wait. I must be jealous.

I wonder how privately educating parents feel when they encounter kids from non-selective state schools who are high achieving, socially engaged, musically talented, successful at sports etc. Because you know there are plenty of kids out there like that.

The highest achieving child at my dc's non selective comprehensive last year achieved 15A and a grade 8 distinction in violin. There were a good number who achieved 10A's and A.

It must massively boil your piss to have shelled out 70K on your child's education and then realise that many kids at the local comp have done as well or better, without being given a unfair leg up and spending their adolescence holed up in a socially exclusive educational ghetto..

Our children learn humility, grace and compassion for other humans minifingerz

I think many will just H.ed with tutors tbh.
Thats what we will do, not sure how it would work in our case.

If the government pay the fees, will they tax themselves
It would be weird for charitable status schools.

Should the state have a different attitude to:

• the household whose income after tax is in excess of £200kpa which is still enjoying a luxurious income after paying £50kpa in school fees for 3 kids
• the household with an income of £75kpa (so under that £80kpa threshold which apparently defines wealthy) and which chooses to reduce their disposal income to less than the national median and live ultra-frugally in order to scrape together the same sum for fees

Are they equivalent?

minifingerz Surely all is well then in your DC's non selective wonder school, and children achieve fantastically there, without the rich but dim kids with sharp elbowed parents using up the resources. So why are you so angry about other people stupidly shelling out 70k? Are you feeling sorry for them not having your insight?

peukpokicuzo the state already has a different attitude to how they tax income of 200k vs 70k. I think the state should stop having further opinion on how people choose to spend their post tax income. They better concentrate on provide real competition to private schools like the great non selective school minifingerz's children go to.

Only 7 per cent of children go to private school as most parents cant afford it or dont think it is worth paying for.
School fees is an optional luxury and should be taxed as such.
This is a tax which will hit the wealthiest families who chose to send kids to private school unlike the bedroom tax which hits families already struggling particularly with disabled children.
I dont know the figures but I suspect that school fees tax will easily raise more than bedroom tax and be easier to administer and cause less harm. It seems to make economic sense to me.
If à few children are taken out of private school it wont ďo them personally any harm and the VAT raised from those remaining will more than cover the extra cost to the state.
Makes complete senss to me.

peukpokicuzo
Any family who chooses to pay fees has made a choice. It makes no difference what their disposable income is.
You should not be given special treatment for privately educating your kids, it is an optional luxury !!
Should a porsche cost less if you earn 70k than if you earn 200k?