To expect my brother to get himself together?

[Wanda354]

DB has had problems all his adult life, which all stem from substance abuse, mainly alcohol. Over the past 20 years he has lost jobs and friends , been banned from driving twice, been arrested and charged for assault (got off on a technicality), and now his child is the subject of a child protection order. All of this is because of things that happen when he is drunk. He is nearly 40 now.

His partner has 2 older DC from other relationships. DB's relationship with partner is volatile, largely because he is a nasty drunk who says vile things to her and her older 2 DC when in drink, which he then cannot remember afterwards. Her older 2 children have chosen to live with their dads now as a result. DB considers he doesn't have a drink problem because he "only drinks at the weekend". But every Fri and Sat night he has a bottle of wine and 4 beers (each night) and thinks that is ok. Most weekends there is a row, frequently these are major, and I imagine very frightening for the DC to overhear.

Recently things have come to a head and the child protection order put in place. Only a year ago was the charge for assaulting his partner.

DB seems to see all of this as some sort of conspiracy in which events which are "not that bad" are made to look much worse than they are. He doesn't join the dots to recognise that the circumstances that have led to this all arise from his drinking. Whether he actually does realise that deep down, and chooses to ignore it. I don't know. Has said to me that he can't imagine never drinking again as "I've got to have something". Says he doesn't have any friends, never goes out, a weekend drink is all he has to look forward to each week. I have told him that what he does have is a child, who he loves, and who will be taken away eventually, either by his mother or God forbid, social services, if these events don't stop happening.

He always bounces back to my parents' home when things go wrong (they live close by, I am an hour away) never thanks them for their support, never apologises for his behaviour. Over the years they have replaced cars he has written off when drunk, bailed him out financially, my dad has spent 2 periods of 18 months driving him to and from work every day while he was banned (so he wouldn't lose the job). Now they hide alcohol and car keys when he is there. They are in their 70s and don't want to be picking up the pieces any more but I think fear what would become of him if they didn't. Both of them text me regularly telling me they have had enough. It is destroying their relationship with each other and their ability to enjoy life. It's like a constant shadow for DM worrying what will happen next. She wakes in the night worrying about it. My dad says little but his disappointment is obvious.

I offer to have DB at mine but he rarely comes as it's not convenient for his work. Have tried to talk to him about getting help to stop drinking; he won't countenance it.

Despite all this, my DB is actually a nice person when "normal" and I love him so much. AIBU to expect him to get himself together for the sake of his child and for the sake of our parents, who will not be around forever? What can I do to make him realise this? What can I do to help my parents?

he would literally have to be left with no door open to him for a few days before he tried to find somewhere else to stay. That would probably end up meaning he'd lose his job ... and we'd all be blamed for that

Can I ask who you mean you'd be blamed by? (I assumed you meant your DB, but don't want to get it wrong)

And if you do mean your DB ... does it matter if he tries to blame you?

Both his GF and your parents need to stop enabling him. They do this by allowing him to continue on his destructive course with no real consequences. His GF needs to chuck him out, once and for all, and your DPs need to stand firm and tell him he isn't welcome at their house, they're not driving him anywhere, they're not giving him money and that he needs to go to the council or a charity to get housing if he is unable to sort it out himself. I can well understand you anguish and frustration and I imagine you're worried for your DPs and fear that your DB's behaviour will send them to an early grave. The sad truth is that unless they disengage it quite possibly will. I'm sure they would struggle to understand it, but they are actually assisting him in taking no responsibility for his behaviour. By always being his backstop, his last resort when he's got nowhere to go, he doesn't have to face the mess he's made or do anything to sort it out.

The best thing you can all do - you and your DPs - is contact Al Anon and, if possible, join a local group. Go and sit and talk with others who have been through this or are going through it. Not only will you find support and help, but it might strengthen your DPs' resolve to do what they need to do.

None of you can help him, and that's what you have to understand.

YOU DIDN’T CAUSE IT,
YOU CAN’T CURE IT,
AND YOU CAN’T CONTROL IT

I think when you are used to helping someone over and over again..It is a pattern of behaviour for your parents as well as your DB.

He will never find his way out of this..If he goes to your parents he is the victim, they don't take him victim..

Nothing is about anybody else ..just him ..So yes your parents /SIL and you all need to stand together to make him hopefully realise what he is/ has lost.

I mean that DB will blame us. Of course I also know that it's not our fault, none of this is anyone's "fault" but his.

DF is considering sending a text which basically says don't come here again, this door is closed to you as a result of your addiction which you refuse to address. Whether he will send it or not, I don't know. SiL has been in touch today saying she's told DB she wants him gone and not to come back. I don't know whether that means she will turn him away when he goes home this evening (he hasn't got a key). If so, he will either try my parents or, if DF has sent this text, I imagine he may well just go and get pissed, which will probably end up with him either getting into a fight or going round to SiL's to shout at her to let him in. Either way it seems likely to end up with police involvement.

No one wants this situation to get worse for him. But he has blocked me, SiL and DM from sending whatsapps, we can't even communicate with him.

How does your DM feel about being blocked? Or your SIL come to that? Has it pushed them towards thinking "fine - sort it out yourself then" or are they full of angst and "I could have done more" ?

I'm also wondering if DB knows that your mum tends to take a softer approach than your dad - and whether, if your dad sends his text, DB will manipulate that and try to drive a wedge between them to get his way?

No one wants this situation to get worse for him.

No, but equally YOU CAN'T FIX IT for him and for any progress to be made you have to understand this. Neither you nor your parents can continue to insulate him from the consequences of his actions and then expect him to magically see the error of his ways and just stop drinking. That NEVER happens. The only thing that works is for HIM to realise that this destructive cycle has to stop, for HIM to make the choice to seek help, for HIM to engage with professionals, take responsibility for his own actions and start the long, hard journey to recovery. It doesn't matter if he's blocked you. So what? This is HIS mess and the sooner you all step back and make him responsible for the consequences of HIS actions, the better for everyone concerned. Including him. You can't change things for him. You have to accept that.

I should also say that many alcoholics never do recover. Many of them never accept that there is a problem. They're still minimising their drinking, blaming everyone else, lying and obfuscating and devastating the lives of those around them when they die. This is why you need to join a support group, because this message is only really going to hit home when others who are going through the same thing look you in the eye and tell you that.

I believe you've just crystallised an important point, juneau

To most normal people helping someone out is a natural thing to do, especially when it's family; to effectively say "you're on your own" feels uncaring and doesn't come easily, especially when the guilt felt will be made even worse by the reaction it will certainly get

Trouble is, sometimes it really is the only way

I do get what you are all saying about detaching, really I do. I am completely on board with all of that, and am giving that message to our parents, but then out of nowhere I'm walking down the road thinking about it all and find tears in my eyes as I think of my little brother, how he is going to lose the one thing he values (his DS) and what his life will feel like to him then.

DF has apparently sent the message as an email, as DB has blocked everyone on whatsapp. No idea if he's read it yet. Oddly, we haven't heard from SiL yet, which we would have normally if she had not let him in.

In all honesty, many addicts need to experience that downward spiral in order to hit rock bottom. It's a bit of an overused trope but it's very true - until he has nothing left to lose, he won't see that he needs help.

My DB was a functional alcoholic for years before he began to spiral, he lost his job, his relationship, his home, his self respect... He alienated our parents, his friends, the lot.

He tried to kill himself twice and ended up homeless for a while before he finally accepted help and my parents paid for him to go to rehab. Three years on and he's been sober ever since, now has a job counselling the families of addicts and is looking at getting his own place again!

Stay strong, your relationship with him will get him through

You can't fix this. Your parents can't fix this. Your SIL can't fix this. The only person who can fix the addiction is your brother, and he is choosing not too.

You, your parents and your SIL all need to stop enabling him. You're all choosing to enable him. Your parents are choosing to be codependent with him. If they're not going to break that cycle I don't have any sympathy for them.

I'm pretty disgusted with your SIL for CHOOSING a violent, drunk drug addict over her own children. What a poor excuse for a mother.

The only one I have any sympathy for in all this is his poor son. Ditto his half siblings, but at least they had an escape route by going to live with their father. Poor nephew doesn't even have that option.

He has damaged his DS with his behaviour, having prioritised alcohol.

Your parents are choosing to be codependent with him. If they're not going to break that cycle I don't have any sympathy for them.

I think that's harsh

out of nowhere I'm walking down the road thinking about it all and find tears in my eyes as I think of my little brother, how he is going to lose the one thing he values (his DS) and what his life will feel like to him then

It's okay to feel devastated OP - that makes you a normal human being with empathy for the suffering of those around you. You aren't okay with this situation and that is okay. A normal, functioning person does find this sort of horrible situation upsetting and heart-rending. But you can't make this better for him, even with all your best efforts. The only person who can help him sort this out is him. If he's not even trying, if he doesn't take responsibility for his actions then no one help him. He's an adult now, a parent himself, not that little boy you're crying over. And adults need to be responsible for themselves.

I sent him a text this morning, which he obviously received as has just replied. I kept mine neutral and factual. His response is:

"It is all being blown out of proportion. I have not been drinking when [partner's DC] is there and have barely had a drink for a month. When I do drink, I do so moderately which has not been a problem at all. DM constantly sends me horrible messages and goes on and on and on negatively all the time and I have had enough of her shit. I am doing everything asked of me."

Obviously this is delusional. Doing everything asked of him would mean no drinking when the DC are there. Question is: do I respond pointing this out, or should I try to get him to meet up with me to talk things through in person? If he genuinely believes he has no problem and it's all fine, maybe going through the objective facts might be a way to get him to see it as others do?

Wanda I'm in a very similar predicament with my brother. He is a few years older, girlfriend and kids moved away, dad died, mum had to sell home due to needing care, brother had months of notice but so stubborn he ended up homeless for a while then snubbed DSS housing as he was too good for it. I've wanted to post so many times but feared getting a slating. In truth stepping back and getting some boundaries helps to put your brothers problems back in his court (Yes after the anger blame hurt etc on all sides) I'm not that far along and still suffer from crushing guilt, helplessness, anger frustration and fear of the worst. You're not alone in feeling like this or having to deal with mesed up stuff like this. Sending you some strength and hope that you can start to get a little bit of distance.

If it would make you feel better then meet up with him and try to reason with him. Lay out the facts of his situation. Tell him he needs help, that he needs to go to his GP and ask for help, that his only option at this point is giving up drinking, that he is going to lose his DS if he doesn't.

From him you should expect: minimising, deflecting, defensiveness, excuses, blaming others, and an unwillingness to accept what you're saying.

But if it would make you feel better to try and reason with him, go ahead. At least then you'll feel you did what you could. Just don't expect it to make any difference.

PS. If, by some miracle he agrees with you, judge him after that point by his ACTIONS and not his words. Addicts are good at talking the talk, less so at walking the walk.

If he genuinely believes he has no problem and it's all fine, maybe going through the objective facts might be a way to get him to see it as others do?

I'm sorry but I doubt it will make any difference at all; I'd have thought his text makes that clear

Maybe it's time to realise that the only person who can affect any changes is him?

Classic addict message.

Worryingly, it also sounds as if you're getting dragged down again into the same mindset as your DM: "He's really desperate now, so if I just do such-and-such and say it's absolutely the last time, maybe he'll change" ... "If I just put it objectively, perhaps he'll see it" and so on

As so many have said, it really isn't about what anybody else does or says now - except in that it enables his self destruction of course

You'd be wasting your time replying to him or meeting up with him.

Unless he's come to the decision on his own that he's an addict and needs help - and is willing to get it - then you can talk to him until you're blue in the face and it won't make any difference.

Your texting.Your messaging are steps to still try and fix it. He has been given options many times..He really is not going to listen to your opinion..You will just be on the others side and not his.

I was in a violent relationship..I had been told by someone they would hold a number for me if I ever needed it. I called the day I was ready to get out..This is what your DB needs to do.Until then you need to let him live in the world of denial. You have had years and this is the point you have to decide he isn't going to listen.. I sadly think he has much further to fall before he can make it back up.

It is tough..I really want the feeling of wanting to help but you really can't at this point. He doesn't want it. He wants you to feel sorry for him.

Good post starlight

As an alkie again, and only my own experience...

I've done everything asked of me. That stands out. He doesn't want to. He's doing it for others.

I only got into recovery when I started doing it for me. You can want to do it for other people, because I certainly knew it was hurting them, but until it was for me, the cycle continued.