to be annoyed that there will be a trousers uniform only at dc's secondary school from next year?

[bigbuttons]

DD ( dc number5) starts secondary in September. All her older sibs have gone/ are at the school. Her 2 older sisters are in years 8 and 10. Up until now the uniform has been, for girls, a blazer, skirt or trousers, white shirt and optional tie.
We got an email this week saying that after extensive consultation( I would like to know with whom because parents were not asked to my knowledge) the uniform for new year 7's would be 'gender neutral'. Both sexes will wear exactly the same uniform i.e new school jumper, no blazer, smart grey or black trousers, no skirts and all to wear a tie. Pupils currently at the school can continue with the current uniform but change of they wish.
There has been 'issue' with girls rolling their skirts up to basically just below their backsides and members of the public/parents have been complaining about this. The new trousers only uniform will help with issues of 'decency' it says.
Year 6 dd is horrified, she has never worn trousers in her life and quite frankly is not a good shape for them anyway, - leggings yes, buttoned trousers, no, although I have never said this to her of course. She is short and stocky, always has been.
I know many women who feel very uncomfortable wearing trousers because they don't like their legs/shape and always wear dresses and skirts.

What this this gender neutral crap?
I support both sexes wearing ties and I liked the blazer so am sad it has gone.

I think the girls should be able to wear skirts and am confused about the whole 'indecent' issue. If a girl wears a short skirt it's surely not her fault if people find it 'indecent'? It feels like very little has progressed for girls since I was at school. So, they now all have to look like boys?

I would be interested to hear people's views on this.

Blazers, shirts, ties and trousers are ridiculous. They should be allowed to wear jeans and a polo shirt embroidered with the school logo.

"I would even dip a toe into the fem boards but in all honesty I can't understand most of what is being said blush"

You would, you know. All that stuff about it being all intellectual and incomprehensible is just bullshit.

so what about boys who wear those baggy trousers that are literally hanging off them? I can see their underwear and to the tops of their legs. Is that indecent?
I can see the backsides of builders in badly fitting jeans, I can see their moobs when they don't wear shirts. I can see the backsides of many cyclists when they wait at traffic lights infront of my car.
I see most of the bust of many women in low cut dresses out and about during the day. Is this all indecent then? Or is it just school girls in short skirts?

We should be challenging what we think of as indecent.

Whilst I hate the idea that girls are being told what they can and cannot wear, I wish more schools would take a proactive approach to the length of girls skirts.

I remember having to have my skirt length measured at school and being sent home if too short and a follow up phone call home.

On the walk to drop my dd (7) off at school we walk past a lot of secondary school girls. This morning I would have been able to tell you exactly what colour knickers almost every girl was wearing. These particular skirts have a slit up the back which is either ripped open by the owners or forgotten about when rolling the waistband. So those walking behind unfortunately see everything.

I have had to have numerous conversations with my dd about why she can see their knickers and questions about how they don't get cold when I've had to bundle her into her coat!

I never wear trousers and like your DD would be horrified at the thought of having to wear them. No doubt some of the girls will wear spray on kecks that will leave little to the imagination anyway.

Great idea. I wish our school would do the same. There's a huge range of trousers on offer - you can buy ones that fit well.

specialsubject - and there are many jobs where women are required to wear heels and makeup, and jobs that require people to wear protective coveralls, and jobs that require shiftwork or the sack. Which of these should be required in school since there is no time like the present to learn? None of it is involved in all jobs and people adapt. I think we need to move away from this rather odd idea that wearing anything for several years in school will make it easier in the work place when most jobs are nothing like schools and few people have the same job their whole lives. I live 90% of my time in almost ankle length skirts and dresses because I find them comfortable [the other 10% in utilikilts which would make an excellent uniform option as they can't be rolled up and the thick material makes it easier to be active and would maybe block cameras better] and in various jobs and groups I have never had anyone suggest I would work better in trousers.

Personally, if their email didn't sound like they were trying to score brownie points with the unheard of ~extensive~ consultation and calling it "gender neutral" rather than just a new uniform, I'd shrug it off but as is it does feel weird and would likely at least ask. Here I haven't noticed significant skirt rolling up issues -- I have seen lots of sagging as well as rolled up oddly rolled up trousers but there has been a lot of uniform tweaking at local secondary schools, particularly ones with new heads or something wanting to make their mark.

Or is it still that school girls alone are still seen as potential lolita-esque sirens trying to tease and distract poor boys and upset older women ( who secretly wished they were as young again)

so what about boys who wear those baggy trousers that are literally hanging off them? I can see their underwear and to the tops of their legs. Is that indecent?

It's stupid and they should also be told not appropriate school wear.

I can see the backsides of builders in badly fitting jeans, I can see their moobs when they don't wear shirts. I can see the backsides of many cyclists when they wait at traffic lights infront of my car.
I see most of the bust of many women in low cut dresses out and about during the day. Is this all indecent then?. These are all ADULTS

I can't stand wearing trousers with pads in my knickers so I would have hated this as a teen as days I wasn't wearing sanitary protection I would have been wearing panty liners as my discharge didn't settle down until I was 16/17.

I'm serious, find someone who does sewing alterations and take their advice on trousers to buy and alter so they fit well. Next have a good school range for all shapes and sizes though.

I have tried but I just can't get frothed up about this.
Its a uniform.
For whatever reason the school have decided its trousers only. Accept it or change to a school that allows skirts.

I have done a few jobs where the uniform was trousers. I didn't feel masculine or that my choice as a women was been eroded.
DC school is trousers blazers and shirt/tie. The girls blazers are cut different to allow for their shape as are the trousers. They are wearing a pant suit something women have worn since the 80s. Why is it all of a sudden about removing their feminist rights because trousers and blazers are male?

By the way equality is not about making everything the same it is about making everything equal.

What does it matter that they are adults?

Do you think it matters because you see girls in short skirts as sexual? Because if you don't see them as sexual, but as girls, then why does it matter?
if you do see them as sexual then the problem lies with the person looking and judging, not with the girls themselves.

I think the only thing that would annoy me would be calling it 'gender neutral' when what they actually mean 'traditionally male'. So essentially, 'male' options like trousers and ties are the default and 'female' ones are other.

After all, I can't imagine them insisting all the boys wear skirts and calling them 'gender neutral'

Most school in my city are trousers only for girls but DD's school is skirt or trousers; the trousers for girls is completely different to boys style. She wears either depending on her mood. I wouldn't be very happy if they weren't given a choice and had to wear trousers only.

My daughter attended a school with a brilliant policy on skirts. Thete was the choice of THE school skirt that was to be worn closer to the snkle thsn the knee. It meant skirts were mid calf. No thighs on show.
There was also a trouser option. The skirts were the most popular choice though.
There should be choice.

Yes,our school has a uniform skirt too. When it was introduced every girl in the school who wanted one was issued with one. And it is as cheap as it is possible to find in a reasonable quality. So the girls have a choice, the uniform skirt or trousers. There was a bit of rumbling for a month or two, now it works well. The school had a bit of an image problem, and like it or not, this policy has made a big difference.

What does it matter that they are adults? in context, we were discussing children. So what adults are wearing is irrelevant.

Do you think it matters because you see girls in short skirts as sexual?*. Fuck off.

As a parent it is my job to protect my children. I would seriously feel I had failed if I were arguing the point for them going out with their skirts shorter than their knickers.

It's NOT a feminist issue. It's basic child protection. Yes I agree with what you said, if anyone sees it as sexual then THEY indeed have the problem, but let's not be completely twatish about it and pretend kids should show their arses off because it's not them that have the problem. Let's teach out children to cover their pants appropriately.

DD4 school has a uniform skirt, I bought one as big as I could that would stay up resting on her hips. It is rather short as she is such a slim build!!!

They don't come in different lengths!

Why gender neutral means male? Whi decided that male uniform is gender neutral?

It doesn't. Since when are trousers male only? I assume the girls wear girl's trousers and the boys wear boy's trousers although they could wear either if they wanted, there's nothing to stop them because a pair of trousers is gender neutral in a way that a skirt is not. It's not like a boy can wear a skirt as society stands right now so they've gone with the type of clothing that both can wear.

It's interesting that people are seeing this uniform policy as the girls having a choice taken away rather than equalising the available choices with the boys. Boys only ever had the choice of trousers, now both only have the choice of trousers. Is that not equality?

IT is amazing that there is still such a high level of prudery/ old fashioned thinking when it comes to the female body.

I would feel the same about a boy wearing really short shorts too. On a beach holiday/clubbing fine, go for it. At school? Not so much.

I've been thinking about unisex/gender neutral - to me unisex implies one item of clothing for all. In this case it's just trousers, not one style of trousers to fit all so it's not unisex.

After all, I can't imagine them insisting all the boys wear skirts and calling them 'gender neutral'

That would be because a skirt is solely a female garment in this country. Trousers can be worn by either males or females. Can you really not see this?

That would be because a skirt is solely a female garment in this country. Trousers can be worn by either males or females. Can you really not see this?

In this country and century - a century ago a woman in trousers would be a very unusual thing indeed, so I don't see that it's so crazy to suggest that boys could wear skirts as an equally fair gender neutral uniform.

Scots wear kilts, plenty of men wear sarongs in hot weather in my circles, no reason that a century from now that it should make any difference if your lower garments were bifurcated or not.

"It's interesting that people are seeing this uniform policy as the girls having a choice taken away rather than equalising the available choices with the boys. Boys only ever had the choice of trousers, now both only have the choice of trousers. Is that not equality?"

No. Boys choose to wear trousers. I would completely support them if they wanted to wear skirts.

YANBU OP. Girls should have the choice to wear skirts if they want to.

It's just bullshit all this "gender neutral" crap.

YANBU OP. Girls should have the choice to wear skirts if they want to they did have the choice. They didn't follow the rules, school have changed the policy to trouser only. Girls should have adhered to the rules regarding skirts.