To be a bit uncomfortable at phrase "willy-waving" at a conference?

[DadDadDad]

I was at a conference today in London aimed at senior people in my industry, so presenters and audience of professionals.

There was a panel discussion and one of the panellists (partner at a well-known consultancy) talked about how when some new rules were coming into the industry, some big companies were bandying about financial information relating to those rules, and then he dismissed that as little more than "willy-waving". There were two other men on the panel and one woman.

Is the phrase just a slightly jocular and vivid way of saying that companies were (somewhat pointlessly) vying with each other in showing how financially strong they were? Or was I right to feel a bit uncomfortable at the phrase (and uncomfortable for the feelings of the female panellist)? There may have been some nervous laughter at this point, but I can't really remember, and the discussion moved on without any further reference to this remark.

I'm not planning to make a fuss (the panellist doesn't work for the organisers of the conference and it was a one-off remark), but I have a feeling some of you will say I should.

(And I should probably credit MN with "training" me over the years to be a bit more alert to this kind of sexist language ).

Jacques - to be fair, I don't think that description applies to this speaker. There was nothing brash or "look at me" in his style, and like most of my profession (actuaries), I suspect he's more interested in technicalities and sober analysis than trying to be the "alpha male". I think that's why the phrase seemed so jarring, because it didn't seem to fit with the rest of the language being used.

I can't say that he misjudged the room, because as I said in my OP, I can't recall whether any sense of tension was just internal to me! It's not like there was a sharp intake of breath or booing.

I think the phrase is OK when it refers specifically to men behaving in a male dominating, territorial way, particularly in order to exert their superiority over women. I'm a bloke, you must listen/do what I say.

In this case it was not a gender specific reference. So yes, inappropriate, as he is suggesting all these big companies are male run- the males and their willies are running the company. Again suggesting that women are just secretaries and not decision makers.

Dad that's interesting. We share a profession. I'm wondering what event you were at now! As I said I wouldn't use the phrase with a client or at an event, but do use it in the office. I have colleagues who I can imagine using it at a conference though.

😂Trying to inagine now what would cause a room of actuaries to boo or have a sharp intake of breath!
It brought to mind the country firm where dh used to be a solicitor and the accountant of traditional years was getting very innocently frustrated about a 'loose tuppence' and dh and colleague were killing thenselves trying not to laugh.

Jacques - to be fair, I don't think that description applies to this speaker. There was nothing brash or "look at me" in his style, and like most of my profession (actuaries), I suspect he's more interested in technicalities and sober analysis than trying to be the "alpha male". I think that's why the phrase seemed so jarring, because it didn't seem to fit with the rest of the language being used

I don't mean it's an "alpha male" trait. Just you usually get someone on a panel who wants to be the funny one. Not necessarily brash but they try overly hard to be witty and usually fall flat. It's both a male/female thing absolutely.

0hCrepe - they'd probably have a sharp intake if someone tried to integrate a function over a discontinuity or a boo for making too racy an assumption about future mortality improvements in a reserving model!

RunTum - the event wasn't just for actuaries, but it was organised for insurance executives by a well-known advisory-type company.

It's not sexist, it's a precise description. I'd use similar expressions, quite like that one.

Oh scandalous horror!

Can't we say "Fanny Flapping" instead of willy waving?

"Well, they were both indulging in a bit of fanny flapping....so you know, we took no notice."

"Well, they were both indulging in a bit of fanny flapping....so you know, we took no notice."

They'd be women. Of course nobody would take any notice.........

And really, I'm a bit tired of explaining why sexism is not a thing that goes both ways. It is not a level playing field between the sexes in the workplace or public world. Sexism is about the everyday imposition of an oppressive power hierarchy which discriminates against the less powerful group. Men are not the less powerful group.

Wow, what bullshit. Of course you can be sexist against men.

"Wow, what bullshit. Of course you can be sexist against men."

Could you give some examples?

BertrandRussell The fact that they don't get a proper look in when it comes to custody. The fact that they are expected to be the breadwinners and there is a massive stigma attached to being a SAHM. The way women objectify men (of course it happens to women more frequently, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen to men too). The way male victims of domestic violence are rarely believed and often mocked. The biggest cause of suicide amongst young men is suicide.

And that's just to name a few.

How are those examples of being sexist against men? Are all those things caused by women?

I would be happy to address those points one by one, by the way- but I assume other people have already done that?

I don't think it's a simple to say "you can't be sexist against a man". There will be individual occurrences when, of course it's possible for a male to suffer sexual discrimination.

BertrandRussell If you can't see how, your either being deliberately stupid, or it's just not worth my time explaining it to you.

*You're

It is strange how feminists are always characterized as aggressive and rude! Would you like to talk about the points you've raised, WhatToDo, or not?

BertrandRussell Not at this time, I'm afraid. I've just come back from a 13 hour shift so my brain is rather mush!

Ah. That must explain the ill considered post and the rudeness. Fair enough.

It's unprofessional OP, YANBU.

Crude and unprofessional in a panel.

Ok if used informally between women to talk about men's stupid testosterone fueled crap.

Not ok for men to use in setting like panel, because normalizes the idea that everyone in the companies has a willy to wave.

BertrandRussell The rudeness, yes, I didn't mean to come across as rude. My point still stands though, albeit it might be badly put.

I hope it's an acceptable phrase. I'm a secondary history teacher and I described Henry VIII's foreign policy as "willy-waving" in a year 12 history lesson today. I'm a woman teaching all girls.