Re the way our finances are separated

[FaithLoveandHope]

So I've never really had an equal relationship before (several abusive relationships prior to this one) and tbh I've never been able to talk about money properly. DP has a DD, 5 from his first marriage. We've been living together for just over a year and currently no plans to marry as he's not ready.

We've tried to split our finances as best as possible - we each contribute an amount relative to our income which goes into a joint account to pay all bills, fuel, etc. Then separately I'm paying for a counsellor, we each pay our own phone bills, he's paying off a loan and credit card bills. He currently takes home 2 and a half times what I do and has 10k plus in a savings account. I have no savings and am -£1200 in my current account. I'm constantly stressed about money and it feels like we're not very equal. In my eyes in an equal relationship we should either both have these stresses or neither of us. We've recently had to move which has cost a lot, we're going on holiday soon (our first since Dec 2015) and now DP wants us to take DSD camping at the end of the month. I feel like I've got so much going out and I'm gradually getting further and further into my overdraft which makes me feel so rubbish.

Also, I feel like I'd be up shit creek if he lost his job or died (awful thought but it plays on my mind a fair amount). We each have quite a substantial life assurance scheme through work which gets paid to our named person upon our death. His goes to his DD. I'd like mine to go to his but then I think what's the sodding point. He can afford quite comfortably our current house if I wasn't around. I on the other hand would probably end up losing the house before the tenancy runs out. We've previously discussed changing it so most goes to his DD and a small portion goes to me to at least get me through until the end of the tenancy. But nothing has ever come of it and it doesn't feel like he even wants to change it.

I just feel often we're living very separate lives. I don't even know what would make me feel better tbh. I want us to commit to each other, to join our lives together but I feel like I'm the only one who wants this. Am I BU in feeling this way? What on earth do I do about it?!

I'm not sure what you want?

He already pays a lot more than you and you have only been co-habiting a year. Are you wanting him to pay all the bills? It looks like you are living beyond your means. You must be spending a lot more than him to be negative in your current account.

I can also completly understand why he wants his money to go to his daughter rather tha gf and I don't think it's fair for you to begrudge that.

Tbh,

If the guy is contributing 2.5 times more than you towards the bills then he is being very fair there.

Although you are paying a percentage now you have moved in together I'm assuming you were paying your own costs before?

The fact is that you cannot live as luxuriously as him because your income doesn't allow it. He knows this though and so do you.

How long have you been together?

DH (of nearly three weeks) and I have been together seven years and earn pretty much the same amount. I had debts when we got together, and he has two DCs for whom he is paying (more than the standard amount of) maintenance. We know how much our rent, gas, electricity, water, Council Tax, contents insurance, and window cleaning cost each month, and we each pay half of that into a joint account.

He pays for the broadband and TV licence, and I pay for car insurance, road tax (although he does pay a bit towards this), car repairs/maintenance and petrol, as he didn't have a car when we got together and I did. Plus I use the car a lot more than he does.

I pay for most of our food for dinner at home , he buys stuff for our packed lunches and he buys all the food his DCs will be eating when they come to our house every other weekend.

I don't pay for anything towards the DCs if I don't want to, or can't afford it. We discuss it, and what my contribution might be, then we decide whether to proceed on that basis. For example, last year we were spending three days away in the UK with the DCs. He researched the cost, told me roughly what the total would be, then it was up to me whether A) I came at all, B) paid half of everything or C) paid a quarter of everything (the DCs aren't tiny, so get charged adult entrance for most places, and eat adult-sized meals when we eat out). Likewise with going out for an impromptu lunch or dinner with the DCs; I tell him what I can afford, then we decide whether we can go or not. He knows that paying anything towards the DCs isn't my responsibility, and would never presume to tell me I had to contribute to something for them.

I think you really need to talk to him and tell him you can't afford to pay for anything at all for his DD for the foreseeable future. It's not that you don't want to, you just cannot afford to.

My earning capacity is severely limited at the moment. I have depression and anxiety and am under the care of the mental health team. I can't get a better job, I cant contemplate a higher responsibility and therefore higher earning potential job until my mental health is better. I have already almost lost my current job because of my MH. He on the other hand is a reasonably well paid manager who can cope with the stress and extra responsibilities that come with it.

I don't really know why I contribute to his daughter. I guess we wanted a more joint relationship. I don't even know how to broach the not contributing to her any more without sounded like a tight arsed git who doesn't give a monkeys about her.

Tbh I think my biggest gripe is every time we (I) try and talk about committing to each other he backs away and doesn't want to comment and doesn't feel ready. He says he sees me as his life partner yet if I bring up marriage he doesn't want to know.

Do you feel that you are using money to create the illusion of a partnership that is a bit further along than yours really is? But I do think having a conversation about money is important instead of just hoping it will magically fix itself. If you can't contribute more, than the two of you need to cut back and make savings. If he doesn't want to make savings, then he needs to accept that his daughter, right now, isn't a joint expense. Although I'd say insurance that would mean you're both secure if either of you were unable to work is a joint expense.

Thing is OP, you'd be even more financially fucked if you were living on your own.

If he has a DD 5 with another woman, you haven't been together for that long. He hasn't made a commitment of marriage. But I expect he doesn't want to split up.

So just be honest.

• I can't afford to pay anything towards your DD.
• I can;t afford to go on holiday.
• I can't afford to live in this house and pay [x]. I can only pay [y].

Then if he values the relationship he will make adjustments (either more £ of lower living standards) and if he doesn't... I guess it will be over.

But you can't keep going deeper into your overdraft to try and maintain the status quo. That way madness lies.

Do you spend time caring for his daughter while he is at work or otherwise engaged?

OP if your earning capacity is affected by disability then I agree he should be supporting you, but you need to apply for all the things that are available to you as well. I get PIP for my MH issues and you should apply for this. You can also get debts reduced on MH grounds in some circumstances. You shouldn't be paying for counselling - if you're under the MH team then they should refer you along a specialist route (I'm getting weekly therapy on the NHS). I can't work due to my disabilities and I get ESA, so if you lose your job then you should get some income coming in. It sounds like your financial difficulties have come about partly due to your health issues and you need to investigate all the ways that you can be financially supported with that in the first instance, rather than immediately looking to your DP to help out.

If you don't want to contribute to his daughter then you don't, however he doesn't need to pay as much in to the joint account as the expenses will be reduced (although it still seems like he will be paying more).

So you either pay 50/50 of all joint expenses and each of you are responsible for your own additional expenses OR you contribute a proportion of wages to those joint expenses and keep the rest for your own personal expenses and pleasure.
That includes holidays and days out which you may or may not be able to go on.

Either way he will have more left over and more in savings, you cannot expect him to take on your debts when you aren't in a committed relationship.

Thing is OP, you'd be even more financially fucked if you were living on your own.

☝️This.

I'd love to hear things from his perspective. Also, if a man had written this post about living with a woman and her child, I'm pretty certain he would receive quite a different reception... 🤔

Is he aware that you are paying for things for his daughter and funding it out of your overdraft?

Tbh I think my biggest gripe is every time we (I) try and talk about committing to each other he backs away and doesn't want to comment and doesn't feel ready. He says he sees me as his life partner yet if I bring up marriage he doesn't want to know.

^ ^^ ^^
This is your problem. You are not (from his side) in a committed relationship. Joint finances cannot be expected outside of a fully committed relationship, especially when there's a big discrepancy income and he already has a financial commitment to his daughter.

You cannot expect him to support you financially, because he is not ready to be in a fully committed relationship with you. You need to be responsible for supporting yourself.

Sorry.

If his saving 10k was helped by you then I would ask him to at least help you clear his overdraft?

It sounds very unequal that you are totally stressed and feeling penniless and he is saving plenty at the end of the month. I don't think it is unreasonable fo you to ask him for some help. Or for you to have a new discussion about finances and also perhaps about next step in your relationship?

Some people are saying you can't expect him to take on your debts.... I'm not sure I agree, because money stress is a major thing and the stress of it will be affecting your relationship I imagine.

Also, if I was saving each month but my partner was stressed and overdrawn I really would offer to help out....

Op, why don't you sit down with him and show him your statements and ask him what you should both do about it? You can't carry on, so come up with a solution together!

Surely it's about disposable income?

If you're paying in, for example, £750 per month into the joint account, and he's paying £1875 (as per your set up with unknown figures) but you have £500 disposable vs his £1250 disposable then confining to use the 'joint' account for extra things like holidays, camping, extra things means that when buying individual things (him paying maintenance, clothing for his DD is still covered plus a tidy amount to put unto savings) and your £500 isn't covering your individual things hence going into an overdraft further and further..

Obviously these are all plucked out of the air but it's possible you'll get further into debt.

You could explain that you cannot afford any more holidays or camping trips and gear until you've 1. Paid off the overdraft and 2. You've built up a little savings so that you feel secure.

He's then got the choice (without you being forthright in asking) to offer to pay for the trips or stop using the joint account for things for his DD.

Very difficult. Are you working part time and even with your health problems could you manage any more work if so? Maybe something quite undemanding even if low paid.

If he earns more do you often do things which match his income rather than yours? So, holiday in a more expensive location, eat in better restaurants etc? This doesn't work if you are struggling and he doesn't see it because he's ok.

Have you told him about your debt and asked for his support in getting yourself straight? Not asking him to lay it off but maybe taking on more general expenses and living quietly. If you provide any childcare you are supporting him as well.

Talk.

Thanks all for your comments. In all honesty I don't know what I want, I just don't like the way I currently feel and need to do something about it - even if that something is accepting my current situation.

How can you not be in a committed relationship with somebody you see as his "life partner" - his words not mine.

otoad isn't it really difficult getting PIP for MH? I was offered 6 sessions of counselling on the NHS but it was right in the middle of my work day which my employer was not happy about and also 6 sessions was nowhere near enough to sort out my F'd up (if we're being honest here) mental state.

Although it stresses me out financially I have been looking to our holiday so I think I will suck it up for a month and then broach the conversations afterwards re no further holidays etc.

justanothernameonthepage yes I think you're right

lady I spend time with his DD but rarely on my own. If I'm on my own it's because I've offered to take her to the park or something as I think 1 on 1 time is important to build a relationship with her

Sorry matilda - cross post. I'm working full time but low paid & massively struggling, we have a certain level of sick days which I used already in my first 6 months so any days off sick are now unpaid for the first 3 days until statutory kicks in.

Yes it is difficult getting PIP but it's difficult to get referrals under the mental health team and clearly the severity of your issues were recognised there so no reason why the PIP assessor shouldn't. Do you have a care plan and CPN? Our mental health team have a benefits advisor who deals with PIP and ESA. I'd go back to the NHS and ask about other pathways for therapy - the six sessions sounds like something that is offered to just anyone, not people who are severe enough to be referred to secondary care. I've always had appointments during working hours though - same as with any medical treatment like chemotherapy - you'd get time off for that so why not counselling.

I think you are being very unreasonable to expect a boyfriend to subsidise you. He earns more than you and probably works longer hours than you do, and I'm not sure why you'd be entitled to the fruits of his labour. Its not the 50's anymore.

I think that because your original 50/50 split allowed him to save whilst you got into debt, means that you are perfectly entitled to let him know your current situation and ask him if he is willing to help you get back in the black, either by spending less as a family, or whatever he feels is appropriate. Particularly as this situation will not be helping your mh issues.

Harsh, nice comment, you clearly like to live up to your name. The fact is that many if not most couples will have one partner who earns more than the other. Unless they decide to eat different meals, go to different places and each live to suit their own means then of course one will subsidise the other.

The alternatives are that, as here, one person gets into debt or secondly, if both live to the poorer person's budget, they generally have a lower standard of income than necessary.

Equality isn't the fifties. Sharing is very now, y'know.

He should pay more, tell him that it's not an equitable partnership. If he refuses that tells you all you need to know.

purple he already contributes 2.5x what she does to the joint account.
How much more should he contribute?

If anything should the OP wish that holidays and his daughter were not paid for from the joint account then those expenses would be less and he would pay less.

Say joint account is £2100 a month, with him contributing £1500 and her £600 (2.5x her amount with almost a 70:30 split as it makes my maths easier) with £300 going towards days our/holidays/daughter.
Take those out and the joint account expenses are £1700. They still contribute the 70:30 each, meaning he now pays £1190 and she pays £510.

Or they each pay half of £1700.

He is still paying more than his fair share in to the account, regardless of what it is used for.