Today a tin of Morrisons beans sent me over the edge

[e1y1]

Just come across THIS, a story from someone called Gill Watson - it's so so sad.

Can't tell anyone how to vote of course, but hopefully we all will think what it really is we're voting for next month.

It was an illegal govt.

That's such a stupid argument it made me squint a little reading it.
Are you saying that people who spoilt their votes or didn't vote should be assumed to be voting against the Conservatives?

Being a LEFTIE isn't THE default position WITH it being necessary TO vote OTHERWISE. (did I get capitalisation correct?)

According to polls, predictions and Council Elections, the government and result at the last election seem entirely representative of the will of the country.

I suspect that if we'd have a Labour government last GE and still had an EU referendum, the vote would have been an even more decisive Leave; echoing the French votes when analysed by demographics where the young wanted Le Penn having been abandoned by their socialist government.

I was watching a video of a Dr talking about how shocked he was to have just diagnosed a child with scurvy. In Britain. In 2017.

Fucking disgraceful.

Vote Conservative if all you care about is self interest, but god help you if you get made redundant or lose your job through illness. then you soon realise that the safety net of the welfare state is tissue-thin.

notaflyingmonkey

Yes, Conservatives are keeping all the oranges for themselves

AH! I get it. That's why all Conservative voters have moats. It's to stop the plebs getting their hands on those delicious satsumas. It's a conspiracy I tell you. It would also explain why Copella apple juice is so expensive ... it's to kill off the poor; and they keep it on high shelves to get rid of disabled people too! Shit! How have I been so blind?

Le Pen has a hard left economic policy, with racism stuck on top
I'm not sure why the racism convinced UK Tories that Le Pen is a fellow conservative

The far left candidate in France did very well too

Macron wants to cut down the 56% of GDP currently spent by the state - that % is more like a communist state - and the left oppose him
That economic left includes Le Pen.

So @24hour are you happy that there are children going hungry in this country?

It is a vote that says, I hate the poor, the disabled , the vulnerable, our NHS and our police force

👆🏻

Untrue and total bullshit,

So @hook why don't you enlighten us as to why that is untrue? Why are one million people forced to use foodbanks?

Yes. I'm delighted ...

Surely you have a more intelligent question than that? I'm happy to have an honest debate and respect your opinions, but you need to act like an adult.

Scurvy is caused by a lack of ascorbic acid, by the way. The class divide in poor feeding habits has nothing to do with the Tories.

"Children from better backgrounds also had higher levels of physical activity and consumed fewer calories between 1999 and 2015 compared with the others. The researchers said this could help explain the growing disparity in obesity among adolescents of different socio-economic status (SES)." link

How are the Tories to blame for scurvy?

I read this article in the Guardian yesterday, it gives some insight into how voters can, and are, being influenced into voting a particular way without their knowing it. The article is long and heavy, it gives names and connections; it describes, at a very basic level, what's actually happening. It's very worrying.

I don't think we have politicians of the intellectual capacity or independence of mind to get to grips with this concept, and investigate it. It worries me, a lot.

It made me very glad I'm not on Facebook; but does my online footprint really give potentially useful about me that can be added to some monumental dataset? What would happen if I used Tor instead of Firefox for my browsing and shopping, apart from my fast broadband connection slowing down a bit? Would it show up on some security service radar?

@24hour my question was about children going hungry.

Three million children are at risk in the school holidays, as they aren't getting their free school meals.

One million people are having to use foodbanks - including nurses.

Are you ok with that?

24, the point about the "illegal government" is that there are around 30 marginal seats in which the Tories are being investigated for fraud in their electoral returns. The cases have been passed to the CPS, and they may prosecute. If we hadn't had this election, there could have been 30 by-elections, which may have lost the Tory party majority for them.

The election was, I believe, called for that reason. May wanted to consolidate her majority, before the nation was really aware of the utter level of sleaze in the Tory party. You note, too, how it's all "me, and my team", and she is disrancing herself from the toxic brand of "The Conservative Party"?

The reason sane people vote Tory is because all the nice things you like have to be paid for and every time Labour tanks the economy

*distancing

www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/1215590158563875/

This is accurate imo

I hate this idea that Tory voters are bad people who are egocentric.

I do a lot of good in this world but i also feel like i have worked hard to give myself a good life.

I dont want more council estates built, i dont want the country in more debt so we can have payrises, benefit rises, tax cuts... that cant be paid for. I want better education so people grow up able to support themselves, people taking responsibility for their actions but also a safety net for the exceptional times it goes wrong for people.

Take Corbyns latest policy - Hospital car parking charges to be removed and paid for by a tax on Private Medical Insurance. Sounds great.

But if it prices Medical insurance out of some peoples range then they will stop paying it, tax take goes down, more people use the already strained NHS, doctors, nurses and technicians make less money because there is less private medicine, income tax take goes down.

So the policy should be "Corbyn makes doctors and nurses poorer"

Yanbu, I find this heartbreaking. We live in a Tory stronghold - believe me, no amount of tactical voting in my area will stop Fallon getting back in. Kent now has a county council under full Tory control too.

A while back, I popped to Asda and the Food Bank people were there. I was given a list of stuff they needed - and I found myself dissolving into silent tears (embarrassingly) reading this list, and buying stuff on it. It was just so bleak.

Allowing millions of immigrants to move here resulted in lower minimum wages - who put no restriction on east european migrants coming here once the'd joined the EU - T Blair and G Brown.

If this had been restricted things might have been very different (including not brexitting).

there was something on the radio recently. people will vote for who they perceive as the "nasty and competant" over the "nice and useless".

ps aldi value beans are nice, as are asda smart price. morrisons are abit shit.

tabbymog

The Guardian readership could be influenced into jumping off a cliff if they were told there were free polenta and quorn sandals at the bottom.

It made me very glad I'm not on Facebook; but does my online footprint really give potentially useful about me that can be added to some monumental dataset?

Yes and no. There's not really a centralised big database but your data is constantly collected, used and sold. If you get something for free then you are the product. I work in tech and don't care. I use a proxy at work sometimes (am now) but certainly don't bother with Tor networks or anything else. A VPN if I want to watch TV 'illegally' in a country which doesn't allow it. I watched iPlayer in Singapore last week, for example.

You aren't going to have MI5 banging on your door. Realx. If you have the ability to question your sources then you're fine.

notaflyingmonkey

I was watching a video of a Dr talking about how shocked he was to have just diagnosed a child with scurvy. In Britain. In 2017.

Fucking disgraceful.

You can see why I thought you were talking about scurvy, I'm sure. Silly me.

That was 1m food bank parcels handed out. Is it likely that some were repeat users? Lets say that the average was using it 3 times, meaning 0.51230769230769% of the population used a food bank. Sad that anyone needs to but in such uncertain times, I think this is okay. Clearly no one should be reliant on a charity for food but they existed before May and Cameron.

HardcoreLadyType

Happily, we are all innocent until proven guilty in the UK. Isn't that nice.

distancing herself from the toxic brand of "The Conservative Party"?

I hadn't noticed the distancing and am intrigued by your idea of the Cons being a toxic brand. I'd say the reason for Labour's recent and predicted future defeat is their toxic brand. Aren't they called New Labour anyway, having had to re-brand? With Corbyn refusing to step down when they lose the GE, I wonder if there'll be rebranding there again.

What do you think about Danczuk's resignation (speaking of toxic brands)? I think he nicely sums up the toxic issues with Labour now being a party for middle class England who think they're doing the poor a favour.

I've always voted Tory (Army family ) but can't bring myself to in the GE - or in the local ones. I simply can't vote labour either.

LibDems? UKIP do me a favour.

I have no idea what's happening - I voted Remain, everyone else thinks it's a brilliant idea. I thought Clinton would walk it against that orange toad, but...

I thought the local elections would be a huge wakeup call to Tories, but then....

what's happening?

At least the French didn't go for radical far right.

For the first time ever I am going to vote Liberal. I can't vote for Corbyn and the Tories need reining in.

And they did such a good job last time.

I voted conservative in the last GE. Why? Because I've been there, I've been counting up the last few pence for a tin of beans. I've fed my family on £15 for a week. I've cried from the cold when I couldn't afford the gas. Things are are better for us now but I'm terrified of going back there and putting more people in that situation too. So when the Conservative party says that Labour will tank the economy I didn't want to take the risk.

It's now gotten to the point where conservative policy has gone too far and the fear of a ruined economy isn't enough. The rape clause, disability cuts, NHS crumbling. So I will vote labour.

'but also a safety net for the exceptional times it goes wrong for people.'

No, you don't believe in that at all and every one of your posts on the foodbank thread is sneery, ignorant guff about how you think anyone who uses a foodbank is doing so because they spend money on frivolity and don't know how to cook, and exceptional? You don't accept that fact that many people are so disabled they will never be able to work.

We reap what we sow.

The Guardian readership could be influenced into jumping off a cliff if they were told there were free polenta and quorn sandals at the bottom.

That's what's called a sweeping generalisation just intended as an insult. I want to see a country that encourages open discussion without people deliberately insulting others. Surprisingly to some perhaps, there are countries where that's a lot more common than it is here; civilised countries that earn enough and tax fairly to spend a higher proportion of GDP than we do on their country's social fabric. It's that spending that enables social cohesion and consideration for others less well off than themselves. It's that spending that the Tories are consistently cutting, with the inevitable results.

Tory: an old Irish word meaning 'wanted man', a criminal.