AIBU to withdraw from family meals with my mother and step-father as he can't handle children's behaviour at the table?

[moonbeamrider]

At a recent meal my step-father lost it with my 4 year old, causing me to leave my seat and put myself between him and her and tell him "not to speak to her like that". I have a long troubled relationship with him and his yelling and waiving his finger in her face struck something deep inside me. I try to follow the "setting the best example" method and don't believe that yelling ever really actually helps a young child learn. He stormed out, slammed door and left house. My mother has visited me and told me that my children have no manners and I don't discipline them correctly. We never have problems anywhere else; yes they do fidget, use their fingers etc, but my in-laws don't seem to think that the children are one step away from Lord of the Flies. Everyone is always tense around my step-father and I think that the children pick up on this and then their behaviour isn't perfect, but then, they're kids, aren't they! My DS is 6.

Definitely NBU...i wouldn't be bringing the kids anywhere near them in those circumstances

oh the irony, a four year old has no manners but an adult is yelling at a kid... where's the good manners in that.

keep away from him. keep the children away from him. they do not deserve to be on the end of his temper. he is abusive to them.

Anyone yelling in your child's face needs to take a good look at themselves.

He sounds like a horrible bully.
But why are your kids fidgeting and eating with their fingers?

I would def not be putting the children in a position where they feel unsafe. If he's unhappy having then in his home, DM cab visit you.

Re their manners, it might not hurt to ask DMIL or similar if they think there's an issue with their behavior that you're blinded to bit yelling and waving fingers in their face is not on imo

YANBU and your mum is blaming you and justifying his behaviour, she is wrong as is your stepfather.

Yanbu.

Even if he can't tolerate your dc behaviour he handled it appallingly. He sounds dreadful.

He sounds nasty. A real bully.
You did well standing up for your daughter ( and I love that you got him to leave the house, result), and I think never having a meal with him again sounds like a great plan, that would enhance for kid's lives.

YADNBU. Sounds like a good idea to me, meals together are obviously stressful for everyone so it would be better arrange an alternative instead if you want to keep seeing them. Out of interest does your stepfather have children himself?

He was being unreasonable to behave as he did - no-one can deny that. His behaviour was appalling.

However, I do have an issue with the "they're kids, aren't they?" Yes they are kids but every meal at the table is a learning session where you should be teaching them their table manners such as not using their fingers (unless it is a food you eat with your fingers).

Even if your kids' behaviour is feral, this is a ludicrous response from your sd.

Raising kids is hard work. Raising children to do something as complex and important as eating meals as a family takes enormous amounts of patience, endurance and perseverance. Now I'll admit, by 6 I would expect pretty consistent manners at least for one course, and I'm soft compared to many. But back to the start - he didn't model patience, good manners and self-control, he lost it. Not a good example for your children. I would reenter mealtimes in about 3 years.

(Just because 4 and 6 year olds will fidget and need reminding not to use their fingers IME)

I wouldn't be around either one of them at all. He's an awful bully and she's a minimising abuse apologist.

Two different issues - is it ok for your step-father to shout in your DCs' faces? No. So it would be perfectly reasonable to withdraw from meals with him on that basis.
Are your ILs actually happy with your DCs' manners? It's impossible to say. tbh I wouldn't expect 4 and 6 yr olds to be fidgeting at every meal and eating with their fingers.

YANBU OP, my DS1 does the same with my MIL. She doesn't know how to deal with people at the best of times never mind children, it's always stressful when she's around and my son hates being around her. Children pick up on these things and as they can't articulate they will act out accordingly. They are probably picking up on your discomfort also (which seems to be well founded!).

There is no reason a child needs to be screamed at; time outs, consequences, talking to them all work for the majority of cases if they are acting up. Your step father was out of line and I'm sorry your mother could not see it. You were at the table, if they were that bad you would have removed them there was no need for him to jump in. Like you I can't see how shouting and screaming at someone a fraction of your size can be helpful and don't agree with it.

I would explain to your "D"M that you will not be putting the children into that situation again, he was rude, aggressive and completely out of line. If either of them do not agree with your parenting choices or has concerns he is free to speak with you directly as adults, but you will not tolerate any temper tantrums and certainly not directed at the DC. Any attempt to "discipline" your DC again will result in immediate nc.

He sounds like a lot of hard work, would it be at all possible to just not go to their house again? Meet in public or just have your mum over to yours without him? Not ideal at all I know but even in the short term it might help. It doesn't sound like either of them would admit wrongdoing or even apologise. Good luck!

Keep away from him. He's a bully - and a spoiled brat himself if he's storming out and slamming doors because he has been challenged.

Your children may well be deliberately using their fingers rather than cutlery if it winds him up - it may be their passive-aggressive way of standing up to him.

For their sake, though, I would try to encourage them to use knives and forks.

I hope you pointed out that his behaviour involved infinitely worse manners than your children's.

I don't care if they're licking the plates. He sounds horrible. Have nothing to do with him.

Good luck with the the long process of training your children!! Mine are older and still need lots of reminders. Its important stuff, table manners etc but no need to be Victorian about it.

What a vile man. Go for no contact, I would.

He's a failed parent and can't cope. Don't heed them - but don't put yourself in that situation either x

My DP, who is not my DD1s Dad, would never dream of telling our DGD off. He thinks of her totally as his Grandchild, but realises his position is one of total adoration, anything else has to be dealt with by others.

She is only little (15 months) but DD1 and DSIL will tell her off if she is naughty (she knows) and so will I, but he would not dream of it.

She has a special name for him, that indicates his grandparent status, but also stated his personality, they have a close bond but no way would he ever think it wa ok to do this!!

BTW, he came into my life when DD was 10, so they have a close relationship too.

Of course four-year-olds eat with their fingers sometimes. We are encouraged to wean our children now using finger food only. They get used to this, are unconcerned about their hands getting messy, and so realise that it's the easiest way to eat stuff. Why, then, just a few years later, is it a heinous crime to eat with fingers?

We have cutlery on the table and my six year old always uses it, my four year old usually does and my two year old does rarely. So I guess at some point they just pick it up and get to grips with it. I certainly wouldn't put up with some old shouting at my kids for eating with their hands.

And of course little kids fidget sometimes. It's normal. We're not living in Victorian Britain FFS.

YADNBU I actually think you should shun any contact with the awful man in future. He sounds an absolute arsehole. I also question other posters here regarding their expecting children not to fidget and eat with their fingers ....they are children fgs and this is usual behaviour for children!

Absolutely not unreasonable. If your mother invites you for a meal say "no thanks. X tends to yell at my children at mealtimes and I don't want them to see that behavior as normal at mealtimes". Tell her you are happy to call over without eating (if you are) or she can come to your place.

Thank you for the supportive messages. This has been my "normal" for so long. It probably sounds pathetic, but I am proud that I stood up for my daughter and myself (20 years late!).
My children don't continuously fidget or use their hands, I was trying to say that I do acknowledge they're not perfectly behaved all the time. My in-laws eat in restaurants with them. The meal in question was on Easter Sunday and they were wired up with the thought of an Easter Egg hunt in the garden to follow.