Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About prayers at a supposedly secular school?

34 replies

user1494161156 · 07/05/2017 13:55

My husband and I made a conscious decision that we didn't want any religious influence on our kids' schooling. I'm not trying to start an argument about theology or education here, that's just our personal choice and I think it should be respected.

Our kids are four and seven. Both attend a school which is supposedly secular - as in there is no mention of a religious ethos on their website, at open days, etc.

However, my older child has recently informed me that in assembly every morning, they say prayers and sing Christian hymns. AIBU to be completely furious and even shocked by this? I feel like the school completely misrepresented itself by neglecting to mention that there is a heavy Christian influence. The supposedly secular ethos was part of the reason why we chose that school.

We live in an area which is overwhelmingly WASP-y (including my family - my husband and I were both brought up in a Christian culture even if we are not believers), but there are a handful of kids from minority religions at the school and I think it's totally inappropriate that they have to sit through religious teachings that leave them out.
Would it be unreasonable to complain to the school about this? I am genuinely so angry.

OP posts:
LemonRedwood · 07/05/2017 13:57

If you're in the UK then YABU.
All state school have to have assemblies that are of "a broadly Christian nature". Tell the school you wish to withdraw your children from assemblies.

titchy · 07/05/2017 14:06

Yep it's the law I'm afraid. Ask for your child to be removed from prayers if you're that bothered, not that it will make any difference to their beliefs long term.

NerrSnerr · 07/05/2017 14:08

As pp have said if it's a U.K. state school it's not secular. It will have a Christian ethos and they have to do daily worship.

NuffSaidSam · 07/05/2017 14:09

As the others said, there is no such thing as a secular state school in the UK.

They all follow the 'broadly Christian nature' thing, unless they're obviously affiliated to another religion.

IlsaLund · 07/05/2017 14:19

An act of daily worship in a primary school will generally be a prayer and a hymn.
Even if a school isn't a church school they are still required to provide assemblies.

AgentProvocateur · 07/05/2017 14:25

OP, what country are you in? In Scotland, our nondenominational schools generally have a religious service (various religions) once a term, with no daily worship etc. Previous posters seem to be conflating England and the UK.

donquixotedelamancha · 07/05/2017 14:26

"All maintained schools must provide religious education and daily
collective worship for all registered pupils and promote their spiritual,
moral and cultural development."

www.gov.uk/government/publications/collective-worship-in-schools

Only has to be Christian worship in LA schools, so if there are any Muslim or Jewish academies near you, they provide another option. You could have a look for a school that only plays lip service to the act of worship.

The UK has a state Church. CofE Bishops sit in the house of Lords and make laws. If you feel strongly about it, there is an election coming up.

I think you should let other parents worry about their kids, I doubt they are 'furious' or even surprised. Personally I wouldn't isolate my child from assemblies, but I'm sure the school would accommodate you, if you ask nicely. I think if you complain, for no good reason, you will just put people's back up.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 07/05/2017 14:29

YABU, and I say that sd someone who stopped going to church years ago.

The DCs last school never mentioned their ethos, but they still did church visits at the local evangelical church.

They now attend a church within a village, so a parish thing attached and they often have visits from the Rev. Wasn't mentioned either but I'm not bothered about it. Didn't even know they had visits until DS piped up recently that they'd had 'Rev Sally' come today.

I remember vividly having to go and sing in hour long assemblies each morning and go to the church situated across the road from the school at special times of the year.

Andrewofgg · 07/05/2017 14:31

If you withdraw your child s/he may be teased about it and no policy, in fact no power on earth can stop it. Don't do it.

soapboxqueen · 07/05/2017 14:34

As pp have said. There are no secular schools in England (assuming that is where you are). All schools must have a collective act of daily worship that is broadly Christian in nature. If you don't want your children to do that, tell the school and they will sit it out.

Couchpotato3 · 07/05/2017 14:34

I can never understand why people get sooo worked up about this - "furious, shocked, angry" etc.

If you're a believer, all well and good. If you're a non-believer, then it's just a song and a few words. No child raised in an atheist household is going to convert to Christianity based on a few minutes' worth of Christian ritual as part of their daily school routine, surely?

I think you need to get a grip, OP.

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/05/2017 14:36

Have you recently moved OP?

specialsubject · 07/05/2017 14:42

It is the law and no one has the balls to change it while we have a religious believer on the throne.

It should hopefully go when she does. No offence to the good lady but she is the woman who prevented her own sister from marrying a divorcee. What goes around comes around, eh?

originalbiglymavis · 07/05/2017 14:46

It really doesn't bother me, unless it was the hellfire we used to get from one teacher at primary.

I was amazed when there were howls when our school started to have a singing session during the week that were named "hymns" as shorthand, even though it was all sorts of songs. Carol and Christmas services pushed back to outside of school hours so that God knows who won't be offended.

Get a grip. Our family has various religions represented and it really isn't a deal if the kids learn "morning has broken" and told to be kind to each other.

DS announced that he didn't believe in God when he about 8 with no influence from us. He was learning comparative religion at school and decided that it wasn't for him. He had a conversation with my old boss (a vicar) and enlightened him on his theories.

Andrewofgg · 07/05/2017 14:47

specialsubject If Parliament passes a Bill to end worship in State schools HM will give it Royal Assent. No King or Queen in this country has done otherwise since 1708 and it's not going to happen.

If you want religion out of schools, campaign for that, but keep to the point which is not the Monarchy.

JassyRadlett · 07/05/2017 14:50

I can never understand why people get sooo worked up about this

Because there is no purpose to it, it wastes time that could otherwise be spent either learning or playing (both massively more beneficial), and it is culturally divisive for schools (in a position of influence over children) to promote one faith as the 'real' one by giving it preferential treatment, thus implying that other beliefs and none are not worthy of that position in school life and therefore lesser.

At least, that's why I think it's bollocks.

Kwoggers · 07/05/2017 15:03

Just trust that your children children will be intelligent enough to see through religion and don't get too worked up about something so insignificant.

Original poster
user1494161156 · 07/05/2017 15:05

OP here. Thanks for your comments. For what it's worth, it is a private school. I should have mentioned that earlier. Surely one of the key benefits of private schools is that you get more say in how your child is educated and it is a more tailored experience?

OP posts:
niangua · 07/05/2017 15:06

All UK schools are religious. Yes, it's weird.

SOME of us are hard at work trying to reverse it and keep religion out of schools, but it's a bit bloody hard when most parents a) haven't got a clue, b) don't care and c) fake-attend church for a year to get their kids into St Sharpelbows.

So, yeah. Join the resistance.

SilverDragonfly1 · 07/05/2017 15:09

YANBU. Religion is the only thing that has caused more suffering and death than money and it should be completely separated from education outside of (impartial and factual) RE lessons.

Because there is no purpose to it, it wastes time that could otherwise be spent either learning or playing (both massively more beneficial), and it is culturally divisive for schools (in a position of influence over children) to promote one faith as the 'real' one by giving it preferential treatment, thus implying that other beliefs and none are not worthy of that position in school life and therefore lesser.

And this. The idea that's it's not an important issue is proof positive of how insidious the message is.

Etak15 · 07/05/2017 15:11

Interesting thread though! Not that it particularly bothers me but I've often thought the same myself - why my kids come home from (a secular)
school singing all the same hymns that we sang in a hardcore catholic school??

soapboxqueen · 07/05/2017 15:11

Unless it specifically states in the prospectus 'we are secular and don't have any religious activities' I would assume they'd be the same as state schools. The private/independent schools I know of have either been around a while so have historical links to the church or have been set up by religious groups.

EwanWhosearmy · 07/05/2017 15:16

Surely one of the key benefits of private schools is that you get more say in how your child is educated and it is a more tailored experience

One of the huge pluses for me when my DC went to private schools was the emphasis of proper hymns and proper assemblies.

Good luck with complaining to an indie school about their ethos.

Goldfishjane · 07/05/2017 15:19

Join the National Secular Society op.
I can't believe this stuff either, need a good group to help stop it.

ivykaty44 · 07/05/2017 15:19

Yanbu for not educating yourself on the education system

Home school or write to the school to pull your DC out of assembly

I don't like the fact it happens, but the more people that pull thier DC out of assembly then eventually guess what will happen

Swipe left for the next trending thread